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Sweden says no to Euro

67 replies

great animal! you will save us the Svenssons from a nightmare!

It is tragic !
I’m very disappointed...
Yes to the European idea and their currency and let Sweden die painfully, that is what they voted for...

Who wants this? THe Swedes voted against the Euro, not the EU...

Anyway, I’m disappointed, too. The Euro makes the life of those who travel from one country to another a lot easier! Also, not to mention the bank charges when you change money from one currency to another.

sadly so.

Well, I live and work in Sweden and travel to my home country a few times a year to visit my family. It is not easy really... It’s a pity.

hm actually this about traveling is the most non-important of the reasons, I have been reading the campaign for the yes and it stressed many things out.. but this bout traveling not so much ;)

like the possibility to decide / participate more in the EU, the possibility more companies invest in SE because they have the Euro - a more secure currency (not so much fluctuating) which makes investment safer, exporting/importing, the possibility to lower the bank % interest = lower loans because the rate would be decided by the Eurozone which is lower than in SE, etc..

Many many Swedes go to non Euro countries (mostly Asia or Caribic) on holidays so they would have to exchange the currency anyway..

I actually don’t find my life easier for having the Euro, and after almost 2 years I still calculate stuff back to Pesetas, so..

I seem to be the only swede here that likes the result so far! I voted no and I´m happy “my side” won. I don´t think it is time for Sweden to be a EMU member yet. Not as long as our currency is as bad compared to the Euro as it is now at least. I also don´t believe that the prices will remain the same in Sweden after we would get a Euro. I think it would happen the same as rest of Europe... almost everything got more expensive. We already have a too expensive country, so no thanks.
Another thing that made me make up my mind was that it was mostly politicians that was for the Euro, but people with a degree in economy/economic history who was against. I actually think a proffessor in economy knows more about economy and its turns than a politician... ;)
And as Judith said: We didn´t say no to EU, but to EMU (why didn´t it say so on our voting notes, hmmm.. ;) There it said if we wanted the Euro or not.. nothing about EMU.. isn´t that quite important... hmmm again..).
@Liesebieke: What do you mean with “die painfully”?? Like France and Germany are doing right now, or?! ;)

As far as I understood it, Sweden MUST get the Euro, this referendum was to see if ppl wanted to get it NOW, but as far as EU doesn’t “condonates” it, Sweden WILL have to get the EUro sooner or later, not in 2006, but maybe in 2009 or so, which I think it’s not so bad, the € is a new currency and it still needs a lot of time to stablish (yes, now it has more value than $, but things change ;))

Btw, Estonia has decided to get in the EU.. Welcome to the group! :)

Personally, I say that this is a good thing. While, yes, it would be easier to have just one currency to switch to when travelling. Plus, it’s more stable than multiple currencies, and with the market bouncing up and down on a daily basis.

However, I do like to collect currency from different countries, and the Euro makes that damn near impossible *chuckles*

@littleSpooky: But the different Euro countries have different coins! ;) There are a lot of people who are having fun collecting the different coins here!

@Judith: Well, of course we will get the Euro sooner or later. I just think it is good that we now can wait a bit more until the world economy hopefully has become a bit more stable. Another good thing is that I heard that Germany+France are about to get in economical trouble now. If it is because of the Euro and they no longer can adjust their economy with interests I don´t know. But since they are the biggest Euro countries I think it is good to wait and see what happens for us who are such a tiny country (with almost no influence).

Per: I understand that. But I also would want the bills to. Ya know?

Not a surprise. Swedish are stupid :)
And I’m not happy Estonia joins EU.

The only ppls that seem to be complaining about Sweden saying no are the ppls who aren’t Swedish.

I hope Britain gets a chance to choose at some point and not go racing on it to it. (which is more than likely)

Mari so are you! How dare you insulting another nation??

I believe it is nice to be different. I like it that England is different, so is Sweden. Ofcourse it is much easier to travel across Europe ever since they all joined together, but I liked it more when they were different in every sense. That’s just my idea.

And yeah why do non-swedes judge Sweden’s political issues?!

I hate euro. Go Sweden go! :)))

Can’t blame them!! Wish the Netherlands would have said no too! The euro simply s*cks!
One Europe? Give me a break...
The world is far more interesting with all these different identities!

Woohoo! You have sooo great of taste humour DaminehGessle! Finnish, Swedish, Danish and Norwegian people making fun of eachothers. It’s humour an nobydy here get uppset about it.

and then you cannot tie a nation to such an important change as this is to the fact that “then it is easier to travel because u dont have exchange the coins”, which is just about comodity and nothing else... find it the stupiest of the reasons!!! there are much more important facts that DO affect a nation behind it...

This world is still alive and creative because
WE ALL ARE DIFFERENT .........

Well, when 5000 Lithuanian fans went to Stockholm to watch the european basketball finals this weekend, they could not find enough Swedish currency in Lithuania :) They had to bring other currency with them and exchange to Swedish one already in Sweden...

this is a problem of your banks, that don’t have SEK in stock ;)

@Mari: And I always heard that there is a “love-hate” (meaning we really like them, but still make fun of them) between the Swedes-Danish and Swedes-Norweigans.. but only hate between the Swedes-Finnish....

I didn’t want the €, so I’m not really upset. There are 12 countries in the world which have the €, but there are about 180 that don’t.

Huh, I wish Russia would join Euro. It would be the same then as back in Soviet times, when wages of 300-500 roubles (converting to Euro value of 500 is quite OK) were damn OK for living. The f... inflation only added 3 zeros at the end of the bones, so having 10000 roubles as the cheapest bone here was fun. Thanks to the president for “three zero” deflation and we have now “small cash”.
And I WANT my currrency to be less than 1 to 1 paid for 1$!

Huh??!

I will
NEVER
travel
to Sweden
again!

@animalkingdom: What currency do you have in Animalkingdom then?? Monkeydollars??

The swedes voted for a no, so they aren’t that stupid after all, hehe...

For me the biggest reasons for a no is democracy, power-centralizing is not good!! And to run more than 12 emu-countries in ONE way, it’s impossible. There will always be some countries that don’t suit emu’s turns.

I don’t want capitalism, so I don’t want emu or EU.

I don’t want EU-EMU to be a fight against the US, and that is just what it seems to be.

I totally agree with you, Sofiab!

actually when you look back in history, all big empires / nations have sooner or later sunk: Romans, Napoleon, Hitler, Autrian-Hungarian Empire, etc etc.. who will be next? ;)

I think that the power has to be divided and not centralized in just one person/goverment so everything works fine. Too much power makes the president/ king/ whatever not having the feet on the ground anymore and just want more and more and more, and there is always a limit.

I can’t talk for other people, but I don’t think my life is easier now since the euro came to Portugal.
Lower prices???? :|
As a consumer, I realized that some products in many places are more expensive because many merchants took the advantage of the situation, of having a new currency, to increase the prices. Probably thinking that the majority of the consumers are somehow ignorant and would not notice the difference!!

In my opinion the EU shouldn’t allow Sweden to have a referrendum since all the other countries (except DK and UK) had no choice either than to accept the Euro. So why do the scandinavians have the possibility to choose if not the other countries did?
Moreover Sweden does not want to pay for the Euro now, they just want to get a good economy but they do not want to join now and work for it. They are cowards and will stay outside until everything will go well. Then they will beg on their knees to join, while all the other countries, who could not choose yes or no, got all the possible damage.

That is exactly what is disturbing me...

Moreover Per:
die painfully yes... I am of the opinion that Sweden throws away their chances. Having my family in the Euro zone I learned to know that is it absolutely not that bad as your no side is telling. It is quite the contrary. The Euro is all over very positive and will even be better. So Sweden will die, but as mentioned above, they will beg on their knees and take it all but don’t want to work for it.

Goverments who let their people decide on the Euro are correct (coz who voted them in in the first place)

As for being forced.....did you vote for the government in your country that just accepted the Euro without consulting its nation first? complain to them! :P

So what Sweden still have the krona, I like it that way.....just coz I might have to get a few krona when I go...who cares....most things are paid 4 by plastic these days anyways so erasing the need 4 hard currency :P

PS: Sweden already has a good economy why should they ruin it with the Euro? ;)

that’s what I call democracy 100% and caring for the nation’s society instead of just imposing the Euro like that! :D

I also call it being intelligent, wait until they see if the Euro works or not ;)

According to Solana, Sweden wouldn’t really make a difference in Europe, that is like telling - you are not needed here, so well, well done Swedes, wait until everything is working fine ;)

Or wait til everything crashes and burns ;) and then say.... ’we told you so’ or ’thank god we never joined the euro’ ;)

@Liesebieke: First of all my dear friend so did EU not force the other countries to join EMU. It was their own governments who decided that in each and every country.
It sounds on you that you are only jealous that Sweden is smart enough to stand beside and wait what happens. I don´t think we are cowards just because of that. I actually think it is a bit the other way round that it is brave to say no to something most of the other EU countries think we should join just because they are so stupid to fall for the idea.
I also live in the so called “Euro zone” at the moment (for 6 month) and I have the experience that most people here are not happy about the Euro at all. I also heard from other parts of EU (France, Netherlands, Germany) that it is the same there. So I really wonder what strange part of the “Euro zone” you are from?!

Why is it disturbing you that the swedish people are a bit against EMU? What would you gain from a yes??

Jude: Hey... I’m only bein a twit on this about the money thing.

Okay folks, I’m really going to sound off on this and hope it makes sense. If not, cope, or ask someone.

First of all, I’m not too keen on the “European Union”, period. Here’s why: While yes, it helps to bolster economies of those who need a little help, it also seems to put everything under control of one body. Hrm... kinda sounds like Hitler’s Germany, or everyone behind the Iron Curtain all over again. Since I am an American (or just a Utahn if you prefer), my opinion on this matter doesn’t weigh in past a grain of salt. Too much control, and yes, different countries lose their identities after time. Takes a while, but pretty soon, it’ll happen. Living proof? USSR. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Talk to the Latvians, the Lithuanians, the Estonians, the Russians, the Georgians that dared to speak out. Can’t, can you? They were made to “disappear” by those who sought to quell rebellions and free thoughts.

However, the EU does assist those countries who would NEVER be able to compete on the International Market. They get a fair shake as it were to offer their goods up for sale / trade and so on. I digress... move on to the money.

As I said, PERSONALLY, the thought of one solitary money makes it easier to keep track of the conversions for travel. HOWEVER, there is something to be said for individual countries money. Not just to collect. It made it easier to control inflation and the like by having your own currency. From what I’ve heard, it’s damn near bankrupt the average citizen because of the widespread market. ie: The coffee in Germany is 5.00 Euro a can, it’s sold like that everywhere. While, at one point in time, it may have been 3.00 Euro a can in Denmark.

To be honest, I don’t understand why it was done, I don’t PRETEND to understand. This is just my opinion formed after reading and listening to you folks here, and others speak their ideas.

@LP: “Jude: Hey... I’m only bein a twit on this about the money thing.”

hm? I wasn’t answering anything to you with any of my posts?

And I agree about the power-thing as well as with the prices. Look they say prices didn’t go up THAT much but the avarage / % they make is counting non-consumer and consumer goods, so of course the result is as if nothing was going up.

just coming back from Germany, wow, the prices have increased sooooooo much. I’ve visited a place where I worked before, the DM sign has been replaced with the Euro sign but the number stayed the same....9Euro for a pina colada? Helloooooooo?

Anyway, I think it’s a natural process that it came to the European Union and its currency and I’m sure it will pay off in the future...

Spooky: funny comparison...you do know the difference between democracy, communism and dictatorship? And talking about people who speak their mind disappearing…naah, won’t go into that today ;)

@ Vixzter
We cannot have a referendum every day to decide goverment things, for that it is the goverment.
Why let citizens decide get the euro or not and not to let them decide 1000 other things?

@ per
Sweden position is not smart, it’s just COVARD.
Ok let the other countries run the euro and if it goes well join them, if not don’t join them.
I thought we were living in an united Europe where we help each other, not in an Europe that countries wait in a second level wich damages or advantages happens to the others.

@ to Swedes
If you think you are that smart, know that the price increasing was due to familiar shop prices owned by the own citicens, so no increasing in prices will be if you don’t increase the price to earn more money easily, so Swedes musn’t be afraid of that because they are that smart.

@ to all
Yes prices have increased “very much” from a 5 to a 20%, but “only” in “cheap” things. That’s something to remark and that we all knew it would happen. (That’s the only negative thing I regard)
Houses, cars... have increased the price as if the euro wouldn’t exist, just due to inflaction.
Another thing is that since that increasing in prices at the beginning of 2002 prices seem to have remained the same during more than a year, with no addintional price ascent.

More countries on Euro, more powerfull the Euro will be.
Euro is by now one of the most important currencies, and as I’ve heard twice -said by an economist and by an historician- the power of the Euro was one of the reasons of the US war with Irak, due to arab countries stoped selling oil in Dollars to sell them in Euros

@alfonsette: I still don´t get your point saying we are cowards. Imagine the following: Would you think a person that don´t bet all his money on a race that is doomed to fail is a coward, just because all the others are stupid enough to do so?! I bet you would back out in such a situation too!
But one thing is for sure: As long as you are no Swede and/or have no idea about our history and economy you shouldn´t say a word about our descisions. I have no clue about the situation in Spain and have never called you people covards. But I think you are just jealous that you never got a chance to vote and your “nice” government decided it over your heads.

The reason for a refendum is that people should be able to say their opinion in case you haven´t got that. This is what democrasy is all about. And being member of EMU is not just a tiny question like how many children that should be allowed in a school bus or not. This is a matter to all the people of Sweden and our future. If the goverment should decide everything we could rather have a dictatorship instead of a democrasy (like you had in Spain not so very long ago). But maybe that is what you think is good? Have a president in Brussels telling the whole Europe what to do.. is that what you want?

Raising prices in stores has NOTHING to do with being smart. Like all other people everyone want to make as much money as possible (Sure, some groups claim they don´t care, but they are a minority.) and therefore the stores will take the opportunity and raise the prices. If the country is called Sweden, Spain, Germany or whatever doesn´t matter. The result will be the same. higher prices.

Jude: Sorry babe... thought you were pickin on me a bit :o)

@Alfonsette: On something as important as the Euro that affects every man, woman and dog I think there should be a referendum.

If you’re country did not get a choice then take a look at your governemnt.

Not all choices made by goverments affect the whole country! (I think the only other thing that does is how to decide what goverment you have ....and in that case you have an election.)

It seems to me the ppls complaining are the ppls that didn’t get a choice!
Sweden decided to ask the people who will be affected most by the change, and the majority ruled, they’re not cowards they just have common sense!

@LP: about losing identities - while EU “declares” that it supports national identities, of course, in the long run assimilation will take place. But even without EU, some countries are already losing their national identities, especially France. History taught us that conquerors are later overhelmed by people of the conquered nations. So countries, that had colonies, now have many people of those countries among them and own nations are diminshing. Examples: Holland, England, France (largest effect, perhaps).

And of course “support for refugees” is so kind that in the end those “refugees” will rule your country ! Of course, some 5% of them are truly kind human beings, treated badly for nothing in their home countries, but they bring another 95%, to whom your country is of zero value ! Is Norway happy about more than 100 refugee camps ? Is anybody happy to have refugee camp nearby ?

You cannot be so kind to the whole world, then you will be left with mess at home !

@Alfonsette & the others:

i agree with Vix + Per.

Changing the monetary system is nothing you do every year as the Labour law or the Immigration Law that in Spain changes everytime a new goverment is created - if not more often! Sweden is FAR more advanced than Spain and their goverment DO respect what people want (not like in Spain with the “decretazo”!). So I find it completely obvious and normal to ask people if they wanna get the € or not. I think the problem with the other 12 countries is that when they joined the EU - when we voted to join or not, this also implied get the € when all the others would get it. Sweden had another deal, good for them! As I said, I find it clever to see what happens.

And sorry but UNITED EU??? When the project was presented I thought “woow, great, a fantastic idea” and then goverments all seemed to be very for it, enthusiastic and I thought “yes! it will work!” but after the last months the more I have seen that it is all about the same, we are NOT learning from our past, this is not a battle to get all the countries united, this is a battle to see who has more power over the others, Spain, Italy, UK, Germany and France wanting their decisions to be taken by all the others, the big over the small, IF we were united as your dream world seems to believe, Spain and UK would have NEVER gone for the Iraq war, but the war just showed that the EU project needs a loooooooooooooooot from each goverment’s side, that it may NOT work, it is not just about taking but also giving, ..

And now with the inflaction in FR and DE, are they working against it? Nah, they are the big countries so the others just have to shut up and live with it. Is THAT being united? What kind of Union is this? The big countries can do whatever they feel like and the small ones have to shut up and just take as it is AND be loyal to every law 100%

This won’t work as long as we have presidents that wanna have more and more and more, read my theory about the big nations ;)

@ Per: We DID have a dictatorship until 1975 AND we do have an encovered dictatorship since 2000.

just want to say that here in germany noone asked us people if we wanna have the euro or not.
if they had asked some years ago, most of the germans had said NO to the euro, and today they would say NO aswell.

i think its good for sweden, i like the crowns :))
well its their decision and the government has to take it even if they dont like it
maybe they wil have the euro to, sooner or later, who knows

there are on both sides (yes and no) good arguments, i wouldnt know for which i had to decide in that moment, but im no swede

Well said some good comments on here.. I am so please Sweden did not agree on having the Euro.... I was waiting for the results on TV and thought about the voting all day... let’s hope the UK also follow suit and refuse the euro too!!

What could you expect from UK, if you know that they drive on the wrong side of the road ? ;) Joke, of course...

Seriously, countries like Sweden or UK have comparatively high price level, maybe some forces in business do not want conversion to one currency when it’s much easier to compare price levels of different countries...

Alfonsette: I agree fully!

Per: maybe it’s time to change side and start thinking positively and don’t listen to the negative media reports in Sweden. Although I have my family in Euroland I have been living in Norrland for three years now. I hope that gives me the right to say something about your country. (Thought it was quite unpolite to tell Alfonsette to shut up, cause what she or he said about HELPING EACH OTHER is damn right! The Euro is a fact and the longer Sweden stays outside the more damage they will have. In today’s situation Sweden wil not handle with the Euro until 2010 at the earliest! Is it worth not puuting a bet on that? You’re living in the Euro zone yourself now, can’t you just see the positive side about the Euro? Do you really only see the prices? Can’t you see the whole picture? That’s the Swedish mentality: they vote NO because they only can see tomorrow, they are not able to see the situation on long term.
I hereby advice you to llok for a job in the country you are now. Just an advice but you will damn be right to live outside Sweden. You wil have a higher salary and still, the price level hasn’t reached the Swedish one.
To finish here I just want to send you a short text written by a person who lives in Norrland. It’s in your mother tongue so that’s no problem:

To the others: this mail does only concern Sweden so I won’t translate it. If you like a translation, just mail me.”

“En snabbanalys av resultatet som statsvetare är att mycket av problematiken kan härledas till den svenska massmedian. I Sverige har massmedia en
förmåga att vara kritiskt negativa. Självklart ska massmedia granska allt och alla och vara kritiska men man kan även vara kritiskt positiv.
Det innebär att sen vi blev medlemmar i Europeiska Unionen har massmedia
hela tiden skrivit om allt negativ som finns i samarbetet och sen låtit bli att ta upp allt positivt som Sverige fått uppleva sedan 1995. Detta i kombination med att vi har en stor brist på offentlig debatt, det vill säga för lite av diskussioner bland allmänheten, har lett till att
invånare i Sverige ser resten av Europainvånarna som ett hot. Detta ärsjälvfallet oacceptabelt.

Det viktiga för oss privatpersoner och de politiker som stått på vår sida i denna kampanj är att visa invånarna i Sverige att vi är beroende av varandra oavsett nationalitet och att vi kan hjälpas åt att
överbrygga nackdelar. Detta görs enklast tillsammans med människor i andra länder.”

This Per, is clearly not wait and see. You have the wrong mentality.

Back in 1994, when Sweden entered the EU, everything was to become roses and sunshine. Much lower prices, much higher salaries, loads of jobs, both here and abroad. I may be wrong, but I’ve seen nothing of this. I wanted all of this, who wouldn’t?? So I voted FOR EU that time.
OK, the media may be giving us the wrong picture, because what we see the EU does here is looking into the shape of bananas, the color of strawberries and “GOD NO” prohibit Swedish chocolate (because it isn’t “chocolate” EU decided), Swedish trucks can’t be 24 m long, because EU’s rules are 20 m... And other totally senseless things.
So, as they say “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” The Swedish people probably felt they were cheated last time and didn’t feel like being it again.
I don’t know, it’s just my analysis.

The Austrian roads suck, and Austria doesn’t have money to repair them THAT often. The reason why the roads suck is because of the high traffic of trucks from Germany-Italy-Germany.

EU complains that AT roads suck, are dangerous, they have to repair them.

In order to gather money to repair the roads as EU tells, AT wanted to add a fee for each truck that crosses certain mountain ports and stuff, because most of the damage is done by trucks that carry goods from DE-IT-DE, so the goods/ benefit of these goods goes to those countries, not to AT.

DE + IT and also FR complained that this is not possible, that it’s terrible they wanna charge such fees, bla bla bla but those countries WON’T pay a single cent for the costs of the reparations.

AT is, besides that, one of the countries that pays more to the EU and gets less from the EU.

WHere is the damn “help each other” here? Why can’t they sit and say “OK, you get part of the costs payed from the EU money and the rest you pay through a small fee of say 0.50 cents per truck” or whatever. But NO!

And this is only one example. The more it goes the more I see that the only reason for creating EU was for these big countries to be able to step over the others. I am still to see higher salaries, more job offers, higher life-level, etc etc

forgot to add: the idea of the EU is great, but it won’t work as long as there is so many greedy ppl who just want to have power over the “small” and money money money.

Now FR (and I guess DE too) wants to have it “easier” with their super-deficit, guess what? if it would be AT, NL, SE or any other small country, they would make them pay for it, push them, threaten them with this and that, but of course, FR is the big one and can’t step over the others. If there are rules, those are for everybody.

But Judith and Thomas, that is exactly what I mean:

All these facts you are writing may be right but can you only see negative things? Both you’re arguments are only destructing everything about Europe. It’s all negative. And the media is certainly one reason for these destructive thoughts.

Please start changing your mentality into a positive and constructive one.

Why not join EMU and try to BUILD UP AND HELP EACH OTHER?

Just like Persson and the late Anna Lindh said!

you aren’t mentioning any positive either ;)

(the fact that it’s easier to travel doesn’t count ;))

as if a currency could change the economic situation of a country within 2 or 3 years...come on!

Not sure if I’m the right one to bring some qualified arguments for the Euro, but it’s obvious that the Euro was created to build a more powerful currency than each country could provide individually. Which is important, in order not to be dominated by the US Dollar. A stable currency will benefit the countries. As far as I know, the import and export taxes don’t apply anymore, so in a long term the consumer will take adavantage of it. Of course a project as big as the Euro (or the european union) will take time to develop and find its common ground. Europe contains countries of very unbalanced economic strength, it will take many years to achieve the goals they have.

Everyone will have it eventualy, but fair play to those who hold back and wait til the dust settles! :P

All you moaners will have to buy krona for a little longer ...... oh the hardship of it ;)

@Liesebieke: I don´t know, but it suddenly feels like this discussion has turned over to discuss EU rather than EMU. But sure, we can discuss it more generalized if you think that is fun. But first I want to say that the reason why I talked a lot about prices was because “alfonsette” talked a lot about prices, plus that EMU would give us higher prices. It is not the only reason why I am against that Sweden should have the Euro now, but it is one reason. It is also an effect we would see immediately and therefore something important in the short run. Even “alfonsette” said that their prices had increased by 5-20% on what he/she called “cheap” things. The only problem in that equation is that it is the “cheap” stuff that people need (food, clothes and so on). So who is this really good for? Not the normal persons at least who already have a lot of work to get the economy to work. It is rich people that it doesn´t matter to if the food costs 10% more it is good for.

Well, enough about the “small” money. It is only one thing about EMU I don´t like as I said. Another one is that Sweden will lose the control over our economy to a handful of people that is supposed to control all of Europe´s economy. Before the countries could control inflation with interest. With the Euro that is impossible. So yet again I say: Look at Germany and France! They are getting into trouble now and I don´t want Sweden to pay for them as soon as we become members of EMU. We can´t afford that.

You say that the Swedish mentality is negative? How do you know that from living there for only three years? I can´t say anything about how the mentality is in the other EU countries cause I simply don´t have enough knowledge to say anything. It even sounds like you think Swedish people are stupid now?! To be really honest I wonder how you can live in such a “shit country” filled with so many negative persons (Norrland was even more negative than the rest with up to 80% “no” votes.) when your own “Euro world” is so great?! Since you were not in Sweden in 1994 when we voted for EU I can tell you how media was back then. Only positive! So was most of the parties. The people also thought it was a good idea to join and that is not a negative thought, is it?!?! Sweden is also pushing a lot for making EU better when it comes to environment, social protection systems and so on. That is positive, or??

Furthermore I never told “alfonsette” to shut up. I said that he/she shouldn´t say anything about something he/she don´t know. There is a big difference between that. I also said that I can´t say anything about Spain since I don´t know anything about them.

You also say that I should stay here and get a job. Well, sure, but then we have another little detail in the so great EU that doesn´t really work. I have to know the language 100% to even think of getting a descent job that matches my education. Without knowing that properly I can maybe get a job at McDonalds as hamburger fryer... and that I didn´t spend 4.5 years at university to become.

I think as well as you that the whole idea with EU is nice, the only difference is that I don´t think it works in practise. Your dream world that we should help each other is nice and I´m there 100% with you, but I haven´t seen anything like that the years we have been members. The only thing I have seen is “desk” products made by politicians who have never seen the real world. Like Thomas said about strawberries, bananas and chocolate.
I also don´t think it is good that we don´t have any customs control anymore. The drug problems have increased dramatically in Sweden since that disappeared and I don´t think it will be better if we let in even more countries. I don´t say that those countries are worse, it will just be more and more hard to have an overview the more countries we get. Simple logic.

At last I want to ask you how you can think I have the wrong mentality?? You don´t know me and who says you are right? We have different opinions nothing else. So please stop the personal attacks and stick to the topic if you want to discuss more. Personal attacks only show weakness and lack of arguments. Then it is better to be silent.

Here here! :P

Thumbs up Per! :D

To Per:

I came to Sweden after I studied a few Germanic languages at home, after having lived in both Austria and Denmark. I heard a lot of positive facts about Scandinavia. I’m very curious and want to learn new people and new cultures. I’m just starting with Europe, just like you are doing. So I worked a few months in Stockholm and moved to Norrland because of LOVE (oh well, it’s always the same thing about love, like Jonas Isacsson told me when I told him my story. He’s born in Umeå).
After three years you learn to know the inside of a country very well, you read newspapers, discuss at work, meet people everywhere. And yes, I have the impression Swedish people are silent, depressive and all over negative. Of course not every Swede is like that, thank God. This is of course very subjective. I have lived in a totally other environment for more than 20 years and have other norms than you.
Norrland is yes indeed not a region where surviving is easy. Very difficult for a foreigner actually. I think I do well but plan to look for an other job, if not in Malmö, then it will be in some other Euroland. Probably Ireland.
About you learning languages: If I can learn Swedish, German, French or Dutch why shouldn’t you be able to learn one of those languages? Take your time, learn! It’s fantastic to learn. When you’re dead you can stop learning. And be curious!!
Yes, we have a very different opinion concerning European questions, that is because we were raised in two totally different countries!
Sorry if I hurt you in telling you about a wrong mentality. I indeed don’t know you but whoever you are, look forward and try only to be positive!

What Per says about learning a language.. I am in the same situation as he is. We are both in Austria cuz of love.. and German is NOT the easiest of the languages and NOT Austrian German.. :S

I think in Sweden you can find a job easily if you only speak a little Swedish + good English, because after all, English is like their second motherlanguage.. at least more easily than in other countries, I think this is totally different in other countries such as Spain, Austria, France or Germany, where their working language is mostly Spanish/German/French and it’s not enough speaking a bit of their language + English.

Of course I (we) are learning the language, right now I could (I guess) get a job at McDonalds, but you see, I hate hamburgers and I don’t wanna stink like fried low quality oil! Ewwww!

So another place where I haven’t seen the “help each other” and the EU spirit.. :(

About Swedes being negative/ sad.. I guess it depends on where they come from! Ppl in the north do tend to be more depressive, but this has a natural explanation: they have less hours of sun, and THIS affects people (there are cientific studies that prove this :P)

I think Per is a positive open nice person, as well as my friend Jenny from Norrköping, Thomas and some others.. (that you don’t know) but they live/lived rather in the South :P

@Judith: Thanks for those warming words about me! :-))

@Liesebieke: Sorry accepted! I am definetly not a negative person, but some things I just don´t believe in and then it is hard to be positive. I think on the other hand that you are a bit generalizing when you say that Swedish people are depressed and negative. Sure, I can agree with Judith that it can have to do with the amount of sun on some people. I can´t say how the people in the north is either since I am from the south (Skåne and later on Halland), but sure I have heard all those rumours about them being silent and closed. But that is only rumours to me. But as I said, I think you are a bit to hard on the Swede in general. At least like you were in this topic before. I think we might be a bit harder to get to know and that we maybe are not so easy to get close to like some other Europeans. That I think can be taken as if we are a bit negative to people who are not used to us. And that is maybe how you get it since you say you are raised in a completely different environment?! I don´t know... just a theory...

But I hope you after all respect the descision the Swedish people democratically took in this question without calling us idiots even though your opinion is that we did completely wrong.

Thanks, I´m doing my best to learn German, but as Judith says; it is not easy. I can´t say I´m a genious when it comes to languages, but I´ll do my best! :)

Something about the negative Eurodisneyland, and the issue to help each other.
Spain who was quite poor in the last century after the 2 euro-wars (eufemism of world war) a civil war, a dictatorship... received from EU (mainly Germany and France) the highest sum of mony in the history of the world, to became a first world country, that is, thanks to the EU politica Spain that was the poorest Spanish-speaking country of the world became the richest one and that’s thanks to the politica of our neighbous.

It’s true that being a EU member had negative things as many agricultors were forced to look for other jobs due to EU restringtions, but anyway positive things predominated the negative ones.

I don’t pretend to critized negatively Swedish goverment for letting their citizens have a referendum, that seems clever (for me only seems). You all the rest of countries could critised negatively Spanish goverment for suporting a US war against the “96%” of the Spaniards that didn’t wanted Anznar dancing the bannana saong with Bush, and I don’t think we should needed a referendum for that, even was more important than the Swedish one with the Euro, because that is a goverment thing, so next time in few months “I WILL NO VOTE the actual Spanish goverment”, that by now (I think) is one of the worst in Europe, but that I’m sure it would be worst if we weren’t part of EU.

I agree with that idea that many people have, to let citizens have a referendum to decide goverment things, that might be good, but citizens are no politics, as citizens are not lawers or judges and sould no judge crimes (for giving an example).
What I think is that goverment sould ask people what they want but not with a referendum, that is, ask people opinion but being the goverment who gets the decitions at the end.

Another fact is, deciding to pospone the Euro was not as important to get a referendum, I mean a matter of get it in 2 years or get it in 6 years is not as important for making people stand up from their sofa and go to vote.

I still think that most Swedes were cowards, but please don’t take it in a Swedish tipical negative way, Swedes are considered in Spain by the most respectable, and high qualituy humans in the world, being culturised, polited... so don’t get angry with me for describing them with one negative adjective.

Finally, Sweden referendum that was deciding such a foolish thing (now or right now) that became a NO, has spread a bad feeling against Swedes arround Europe, as if they were voting no to EU, and that so sad.

Maybe I’m pro-Euro because I’m proud of being one of the 300 million EU citizens, and I’m proud of being in the same train with countries like Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlans... and in a recent future know that my taxes go to develop the infrastructure and society of the western countries.
And I’m glad to hear that people think differend that me, because that is the wealth of Europe, the diversity, beside peolpe will keep on thinking that is negative.

@ to all
Nice to read you

Hej! I think the swedes are right. THEY SAY NO TO THE EURO.
I´m from Germany and after almost 2 years with the Euro I think that´s not good because all is more expensive now. Most of the germans are thinking it´s because of the Euro. Maybe,
I spent my summer holidays in Sweden and I was suprised because the prices were almost the same as in Germany and most of the things were CHEAPER.
I heard in the german radio news that the swedes have seen what happened with Germany when we geot the Euro.
So, I think the swedes are right.

Per: I understand!

Afonsette: That referrendum was actually pure informative, in the end the government is deciding about entrance to EMU. In practice: if the result would have been 48% yes and 50% no, 2% blank, the government may have decided to join the EMU, although a majority voted no. Now the gap between yes and no was too large to ignore the no-side.

I thought the target of a referendum was to let the people to decide, no to opine, that would have been easier with a rutinary survey, as was made in Spain to know what the population thought about the Spanish support to the US was (96% against).

I thought that first as well, but then I read this information on a serious Swedish internet site. Heard the same explanation later on the radio: “no matter what the result is, the government decides at the end about yes or no. The referrendum is purely informative, not decisive”, was said and written in the press.
Anyway, the government decided later, to respect the result, and that is why there was not much left to discuss.

I can see many positive things about the euro, but I can also see many negative things, and I woted no!
I don’t like how some has been saying things bout the swedish mentally though! sweden is a nice country with many nice people, but as in many other countries we have our jackasses too...

Although not entirely related, I would like to draw you guys’ attention to the following article just released. This is truely sad (the circumstances of these ppl i mean)... and to think that this kind of poverty is happening right next door to South Africa (with it’s booming ecpnomy).

Just one footnote... THe South African Rand (R) is aporox the same as the SEk.

**

Zim invents new ’bearer cheque’ money
SAPA

——————————————————————————–

Zimbabwe has been resisting the lure of printing larger denominations of banknotes. But President Robert Mugabe’s government has now broken economic ground by introducing a form of money that is hitherto unknown.

On Wednesday a spokesperson for the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe was quoted in the daily Herald newspaper as saying that next week it would introduce “bearer cheques” to alleviate the desperate shortage of cash in the country.

The cheques, printed on banknote paper, look like banknotes and are as “good as cash”, the central bank said.

The cheques would be dispensed through automated teller machines and would come in denominations of Zim$5 000 (about R46,28), Zim$10&mnsp;000 and Zim$20 000.

Banking executives said the only difference between a bearer cheque and a banknote was that the central bank would not call them banknotes, and that they expired on January 31 next year.

“This is being done for the convenience of the public while long-term measures are being put in place,” Information Minister Jonathan Moyo was quoted as saying in the report.

A senior Harare bank executive said: “It’s an invention... I have never heard of it before. For a central bank to issue something called a bearer cheque is probably unique.

“It can only be so they can tell Mugabe they haven’t had to issue a bigger banknote. He seems to need to reassure that Zimbabwe is not really a banana republic. I can’t think of any other reason.”

The bank has, since the beginning of the year, warned that it was facing a shortage of cash and that the highest banknote denomination of $500 was too small for the hyperinflationary environment.

However, it had refused to print higher-value banknotes.

Thousands of Zimbabweans can be seen every weekday queuing at banks in the hope of drawing a small amount of cash. And cash itself has joined the long list of commodities available only on the illegal black market.

Economists said the cause was the central bank’s failure to print enough money. They pointed out that in a Third World society only a tiny minority of people had chequebooks and credit cards; most people used cash.

“With inflation now at 427% it means that five times as much cash is needed now than a year ago,” said the bank executive.

The government claimed “hoarding” caused the shortage and last month published regulations that made it a crime to carry more than $5-million at a time.

Zimbabwe has been classified by the United Nations as having the fastest-shrinking economy in the world - with gross domestic product forecast to tumble 12% this year.

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