zeeshan said on May 22, 2003 15:16:

she died!? thank god! :D

DaminehGessle said on May 22, 2003 15:46:

I HATED BUFFY! Such a screwed up show. EWO!
Did anyone watch Dawson Creek’s finale? I cried my eyeballs out. It was such a cute show.

tinytim said on May 22, 2003 16:08:

AT LAST...

That series was an offense to people’s intelligence...

Hooray for John Doe, 24 h and Boston Public...

Hmmm...I wanted to have Sony in my house, so I could watch CSI...people say it’s cool...is it?

DaminehGessle said on May 22, 2003 16:52:

heh yeah! The show was disgraceful!

Starrox said on May 22, 2003 20:20:

Unfortunately they won’t, FOX already decided not to renew it for another season - same goes for Fastlane and Futurama... I wonder if someone there has anything against shows starting with “F”... ;-)

DaminehGessle said on May 23, 2003 18:49:

Spyboo sorry to be this straightforward but I don’t think many intelligent people watch Buffy or Angel as a matter of fact.
I have a cousin: 19 years of age, 6’2” high! She has EVERY SINGLE Buffy episode on tape. She has all Buffy books. She has Buffy stuff! I mean come on! Is she intelligent? I don’t think so! And oh, she is in love with Disney! She loves animals and spends all her paycheque on stuffed animals and disney stuff. I mean yeah cool I love dolls and teddy bears but come on!!!
Yeah so I conclude that intelligent people would not watch Buffy every single freaking week! I know I would get bombed for this but that is MY opinion and I respect it very much indeed.

DaminehGessle said on May 23, 2003 22:17:

TinyBubbles you are SO funny. I cant stop laughing! The moodring story was sooooooooo funny hahahahahahahaha!
I want one of those rings :(. The ring would never be blue in this weather though lol!
You talked about rings… I bought this beautiful ring last weekend in Victoria from a Native Indian guys. It’s a black stone with some metal ring wrapped around it in a very stylish fashion and then wrapped around the finger. It’s beautiful. I would have got you the blue of it if I knew you liked blue. He has all colours and I loved them all. Some lady at work loved it yesterday and wanted to buy it from me 6 times as much as I bought it!!! Imagine? I told her she could have it. She resisted. So next time I go to Victoria, I will buy her one.
Oh about intelligence. I was sorta generalizing it. I shouldn’t have. But I guess it was a bit true?!??! Discovery channel rocks yey!

Jackie_Radiorox said on May 24, 2003 00:39:

Ok I just read “Goodbye FLUFFY”

*to self* I must stop the drugs. (Cold medicine. ;))

kachina008 said on May 24, 2003 09:07:

tiny bubbles...*I* fell for your fake ending. i just didnt respond on here :P
thanks for nuttin’ :P

Buffy is my guilty pleasure too ;) altho i hear guys watch it just to see sarah michelle geller run. bwahahaha :P

DaminehGessle said on May 26, 2003 02:01:

Now that you are bombing me, oh well YEAH I BELIEVE YOU ARE ALL VERY VERY UNINTELLIGENT. How about that?? I said I was generalizing it and that I shouldn’t have. But yes now I do generalize it. That’s my belief. Kill yourself to change it and I do not give a damn.

Anarem said on May 26, 2003 02:21:

I’m going to stoop down to your level now...

Damineh, you’re the one who started this whole thing by insulting a whole group of people *you don’t even know*. It’s repugnant.

You tell us to kill ourselves? Geez, grow a brain. You can’t take criticism or arguments very well, can you? You need some emotional help or something. I’ve got this cousin, he’s a therapist on the West Coast, maybe he can help you with your mental problems– but unfortunately, he likes Buffy, so maybe he’ll charge you extra.

Twilight-Ghost said on May 26, 2003 15:37:

Damineh,

Am I bombing you? because I argued my case that is bombing? Can you please give an example of a quote (above) from me which shows I was bombing you? Please do so and that will be much appreciated. Could it be you are just too upset that you couldn’t come up with a better argument?

See, this is what being a sissy and spoit is about. You’re too spoiled to admit you’re wrong and to sissy to argue your case. You haven’t said anything intelligent since you started this topic.
Oh yeah and call us the “UNINTELLIGENT” ones.
Just like what I said “people who are spoit and sissy are the ones who are usually rude”.
You can’t say anything “intelligent” to prove your case, so you disguise it by saying something “rude”.
Do you think I’m rude because I told you what I think? It’s okay to tell people what you think, it’s okay to say you don’t like something and then tell them a good reason.
Really, I don’t care if you hate Buffy, same more so I don’t care if people thinks I’m immoral for reading Per/Marie fan-fictions or the fact that most people thinks I’m weird for preferring winter. I don’t care. But to call us “unintelligent” that’s a different story.

Oh yeah and I suppose the word “generalising” sort of change the whole thing about what you said, huh? You don’t even have the right to generalise since you only knew one person who likes Buffy while I know a lot of people, especially that Buffy/Angel is my other obsession (besides Roxette) and I know many people who likes them. So, between you and me, I’m the one who has the right to generalise, because I know more fans of the series.

Now do you get me?

Funny how you said in your other posts that you like “open minded” people, while you are not even “open minded” yourself.
An open minded person would NEVER say things like “That show is crap, therefore ’general’ people who watches it are not intelligent”.
An open minded person would say things like “People likes Buffy, so therefore there must be something good about it”. You are open to the idea and it makes you wonder why.

When you said that Buffy/Angel fans are unintelligent not only did you insult some people in this forum but you also insulted a politician (Australia’s Natasha Stott Despoja admitted she loves the Buffy series), film directors Quentin Tarantino and Steven Spielberg (and yes, the master director watches Angel), a group of psychologists (who watches Buffy / or any vampire related show) to study human behaviour, and a lot of journalist who are a Spike fan (I’ll say more about this below / something to do with the Spike ad) .... those are just to name a few.

Why I like Buffy/Angel
—————————-

In behalf of the Buffy/Angel fans; I’ve decided to share some of the reason I like the series:

When you watch Buffy/Angel, it is NOT straight forward like Dawson’s Creek or any other teenage show. So, maybe it’s hard for other people to understand it. Just like what ’Spyboo’ said, “you have to view between the lines, to find there is actually something going on”. The fact that we understand it just made me wonder, could it be we are the intelligent ones?

Those who don’t get it probably just see a bunch of people fighting with a monster and probably assume it is a childish TV show to watch. But you don’t seem to understand the message that comes with it.

For example, good people fighting monsters, sort of like a great metaphor on our eternal struggle to fight our own demons. Vampires drinking blood and turning another one into a vampire is like a great analogy for drugs or HIV.
Vampires do not have souls and therefore they don’t feel guilty when they kill humans to satisfy their hunger. Is it possible this is how human beings would act if they didn’t have a conscience? What separates human from the animals? Animals reacts to instincts (like vampire) while humans don’t. If we desire something we wait for it until it is available and we know it’s alright to have it, so we can’t just get what we want (eat now –> steal food, or have sex now –> rape someone) because we have a conscience.
This is the reason psychologists study a bit of vampire mythology so they could study human behaviour (and I know this because I did a bit of psychology in college).

It also makes you understand that the world is not black and white. A person is not just “pure evil” or just “pure innocent”. This just shows you the interraction between the vampires in the story. They maybe vampires who are probably pure evil but they care for their fellow vampires and that just show that everyone have their good sides. Buffy sometimes even have a bad side. Sometimes a vampire can even care for humans and vice versa. A great metaphor of love between people who don’t belong to the same class or society. It also makes you realise that everyone could change from bad to good.

It is okay to make mistakes as long as you can learn from it. Buffy has made so many mistakes that it even frustrates me at times, but she learns from it. I have to admit there were a few times when I wasn’t even fond of the Buffy character but that’s because I’m a Spike/Dru ’shipper (people who watch the show will understand). But I can’t deny the fact that most of the time she is a good role model.

It also explores great “team work” between Buffy and her friends and what you could achieve if you all cooperate, great partnership between vampires Spike and Dru in Season 2 (they help each other, the way a couple should) and the vampire clan, Spike, Dru, Darla and Angel sort of explores relationship within a family.

It also makes you realise the responsibility we have to face, Buffy has to divide her time going to school, saving the world, taking care of her sister, doing what she can to earn money and doing something about her love life. The issues she has to face from being a kid to becoming a responsible adult.

Also, you’ll understand that with great power comes great responsibility, for her it’s her super powers, but for people in general, makes you think what sort of power you may have and what would you do with it (if you have lots of money, or your social status, etc).

You must also remember, when Dawson’s Creek kids are trying to save themselves, Buffy or Angel are trying to save “themselves” and “the world”. Another great analogy for us about saving the world. Of course we don’t have the super powers to save the world the way they do, but it makes us wonder what are we doing to save the world now? Maybe even little things like donating a little money, etc.

Those are just some of the few things I learned from the show.

Buffy focuses on the “big picture” not just what is life in highschool or college and how to deal with your romantic life. That’s why I like the show. It’s a “moral” show, maybe some of the reason some people may not want to watch it.

Though the show is very moral it is also entertaining.

One fan actually approached Juliet Landau (Drusilla) and told her no one believed him (the fan) when he tells other people what a great show Buffy is; and she replied “many people can’t seem to get past the title”.

Facts about Buffy and Angel:
—————————————

-Buffy/Angel is drama, comedy, action, mystery, supernatural, horror, musical all in one show. How many TV series can say that about their show? The actors can really act they could do the humour while sometimes they could be very dramatic. A good example, Spike or Xander.
(I said musical because Buffy had a musical episode and in Angel there are a lot of singing in Lorne’s karaoke bar).

-The story spans from 1860’s to present. We’ve seen ’flashbacks’ episodes set in the 1860’s to 1970’s.

-Buffy has loveable villains. How many shows have that? If you watch “other” TV shows you pretty much hate the villains, but when you watch Buffy sometimes you begin to love the villains as well. In season 2, the villains were Spike and Dru and they are my favourite characters ’till now.

-Compare to other teenage shows, Buffy is probably the only one that is good enough to be up for an Emmy nomination for outstanding writing in a drama series, for the episode “Hush” (Season 4).

-Sarah Michelle Gellar can really act, she won an Emmy for the soap opera “All My Children”. She is not just a pretty face.

-Spike (James Marsters), Drusilla (Juliet Landau) and Wesley (Alexis Denisof) are Americans who could pull off a great British accent that many people actually thought they were British. Even I was fooled.

-The series had 3 unusual episodes where “nobody talked” (no dialogue), “where everyone sang” (musical episode; all songs written by Joss Whedon by the way; creator/writer of Buffy/Angel; what a talented guy) and where everyone is almost still/and no music in the background (episode entitled “The Body” when Buffy’s mother died). How many shows can pull that off?

-Most actors are talented and charismatic that they’ve gained so many fans. One particular actor I’m talking about is James Marsters (Spike). Because Buffy ends this year. Three months ago Spike’s fans donated money to the ’Spike Campaign’ to buy him a ’one-page’ ad for a newspaper/magazine, to bid him farewell. What’s left of the money were then donated to charity.
Add to the fact that another magazine (who are probably a fan as well) asked the people behind the campaign for permission to print the ad in their magazine as well. And so the ad was printed the second time to a different magazine.
Not many actors can inspire fans to do something like that.
The ad: http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/spike4dru/anewsPics/jamesAd.html

-Steven Spielberg seem to be a bit of an Angel fan that he hired Amy Acker (who plays Fred) for his film ’Catch me if you can’. He also hired Julie Benz (Darla) for his mini-series ’Taken’. The Oscar winning director said he was impressed by Julie Benz performance when he watched her in Angel.

-Why do other TV series end? Mostly, because they don’t have enough audience to keep on going. The reason Buffy ended this year because Sarah Michelle Gellar doesn’t want to do it anymore, she wants to concentrate on movies (which she has missed out on because of Buffy schedules) and maybe have a family.

-The fact that Buffy lasted for seven years and has a successfull spin-off “Angel”, there maybe a Buffy-animation-series coming out, plus there are more spin-offs the network is maybe considering (Giles spinoff / Dawn spinoff / Faith spinoff / Xander spinoff). I guess that just proves that it is a successful series.

Why is defending Buffy matters so much to me?
——————
1. I have the right to speak my mind
2. I don’t agree with people being rude
3. Buffy / Angel happens to be one of my favourite TV show.
4. The irony of being a Roxette fan (explained below)

There were some people who have told me I have weird taste in music for liking Roxette. They’ve told me I’m stupid for liking pop songs with no meaning. But I guess you all Roxette fans know that is not true. We all believe that Roxette is the best band in the world. Now, if you have the chance, what would you say to those people?

Negative comments that people have said about Buffy here so far are “it is such screwed up show, insult to ones intelligence, show was disgraceful”. May I ask why?
At least the people who ridiculed me for liking Roxette actually had reasons like “pop songs with no meaning”, they didn’t just say “oh it’s a stupid band”. Of course I had to explain to them it actually has meaning (and gave examples) and it has nice melodies.

I guess that’s the reason I’m so disappointed, because I never expected this kind of insult in TDR.

If you hate Buffy that’s fine. I don’t care. But give a good reason and don’t judge the people who watches it. The same way you wouldn’t want people judging you because you like Roxette. It’s okay to disagree ... I don’t mind. In fact I like it if people disagrees with me because then I have something to write about. And I really admire some of the TDR posters in this forum who could argue very well like Th_Th, Santi, Anarem, etc.

Damineh, I’ve been trying to be cool with you, I never insulted you and I tried to be polite, all I’m doing is trying to discuss my topic, but you have accused me (among others) of bombing you and insulted us right out this time by calling us UNINTELLIGENT.
So maybe, I too, should stoop down to your level and since you’ve accused me of bombing you, I might as well do so. You may want to take out the name “Gessle” from your nickname because your putting the “Gessle” name to shame. And Buffy is a moral TV show, and due to your lack of morals maybe you could benefit from watching it.

On behalf of the Buffy fans that you’ve insulted in this forum, an apology would be nice.

T.G =[

Anarem said on May 27, 2003 03:45:

Wow, Damineh, can’t even defend yourself. You just go on making your comments, you don’t even apologize for attacking a whole group of people...

I think spyboo was trying to ask you for something to kill himself/herself with, since you told people to kill themselves for being “not intelligent”. So maybe you can do us a favour and follow your own advice, then?

Shane said on May 27, 2003 16:58:

Twilight - Ghost

I read your responses - you really prefer winter? I know it is off-topic, but I thought it was really interesting - do you like winter sports or the snow?

Anarem said on May 28, 2003 05:32:

There is nothing wrong with winter. :-) I prefer winter myself because there are no damned mosquitoes flying around.

Twilight-Ghost said on May 29, 2003 14:59:

” Oh, that’s right, A & E only caters to uneducated dumb-ass yokels like us “

=)

——-

Anarem,
I didn’t even know about the A & E. Where can you find those biography you were telling me?
Please tell me where. And for those “few” of us here who likes Buffy, don’t feel so bad about the negative remarks we got here, we know they are not true.

I guess, TV shows such as one-hour drama, soap opera or reality TV would probably attract more audience because it is “straight forward” .... it is easy to understand. While sci-fi or any fantasy TV shows is a “thinking show”, it requires a little bit more thinking to be able to comprehend the show’s metaphorical representation of real-life trials and tribulations.

In fact, there’s an article that says Buffy are popular among academics. Some professors are actually developing a textual study called “Buffy Studies” for universities.

Read the following article:
http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1262180.html

More famous Buffy fans: George Lucas, Whoopi Goldberg and Samuel L Jackson.

I agree. Excellent/intelligent writing is what got me hooked as well. Plus, great characters, talented/charismatic cast, the amazing chemistry between the actors and great/talented crew. I also like the fact that the Buffy series does not talk down to the audience. The writers are able to combine humour and drama very effectively.

Yeah, Buffy is such a great show. I mean of course it is, it was created by multi-talented Joss Whedon. Not only did he create the Buffy universe but he also wrote many popular movies (Alien Ressurection, Titan A.E, Toy Story). Add to the fact he could direct as well.

He also composes TV themes and write songs (he wrote songs for Buffy - musical episode / Giles’ song in ’Restless’ episode, wrote the main title theme for his other TV series “Firefly” and he also wrote a song for Lion King II).
Joss seems like he is very interested in music and it shows in his work. The songs he wrote for Buffy, creating the character Lorne, Oz who is in a band, not to mention Spike and Drusilla (why? they are fashioned after Sid and Nancy - Sid from the band Sex Pistols, Nancy is Sid’s girlfriend).

Do you remember the songs in the musical episode: Once More With Feeling? What songs did you like? I liked the songs “Under Your Spell” (sung by Tara - Amber Benson) and “Walked Through the Fire” (sung by Buffy - SMG).

Hey, did you know Joss appeared in an Angel episode (He was the guy doing the funny dance in the background in Lorne’s home world). He also used his voice on some of the Buffy episode; the newscaster in episode “I Robot You Jane” and I think I read somewhere that the Buffy and Angel’s breathing when they were making love in Season 2 was in fact his; because he was too shy to ask the actors to do the breathing sound. So, he recorded the breathing sound himself.

Joss is a writer, poet, director, producer, songwriter, composer, actor, voice actor, fight scenes choreographer (he choreographed the ending fight scene on top of the Statue of Liberty between Wolverine and Sabertooth in the X-men movie) ... is there anything he cannot do? No wonder Buffy is such a great show because Joss Whedon is the genius behind it. I have so much admiration for this man.

You were right. Buffy is a “gutsy” show. They are not afraid to show “realistic” gay relationship. When Tara and Willow got together, the show is upfront with it, when you watch most of the episode you could really tell they are a couple, but at the same time not making the episode revolves around that. Do you get what I’m saying? I mean in Dawson’s Creek, probably the only episodes where you could tell Jack is gay is if the episode is actually about “Jack is gay” episode.

I agree with what you said about the episode “The Body”. Buffy’s mother died of natural causes and did you notice how they really made you concentrate on the characters, they made the colours on the background a bit different and if you would notice there was “never” a scene where a music is played in the background. Plus, the emmy nominee episode “Hush” where there was no dialogue (how original is that?), the musical episode is one of the best too and remember that episode where everyone was asleep and dreaming, and they showed us what each characters are dreaming about (ep:’Restless’), and there’s that guy with the cheese? One of the best as well. Only Joss Whedon could think of great episodes like that.

Did you ever notice, there’s something about ’b... t....’ in the Buffy series? Buffy’s mother died of BT, Ford (Buffy’s friend in Season 2) was dying of BT as well (but vamps killed him first). And I’ve always thought Spike’s chip in his head maybe some kind of analogy to BT? ... well you know what I mean. In the beginning Spike didn’t like the chip because it restricts him from doing things that vamps could do .. so it’s like a disease metaphor (because disease makes you weak). Spike became weak in some ways.

Finally, please tell me where to find that A & E Biography. I understand what you mean, of all those great shows, for some reason A & E chose Buffy. That’s because Buffy rocks!

———-

Shane,

Yes, I know many people would probably find me weird but I do prefer winter than summer (I’d rather be cold than hot). No, I don’t like winter sports. I don’t think I’m into sports at all. Except tennis and volleyball (which is ironically summer sports).
Yes, I like the snow but the part of Australia I live in don’t snow.

I agree with Anarem, during winter there are no mosquitos. (I just hate mosquitos).

I like winter mainly because it’s cold. I prefer colder weather. For some reason, I feel more relaxed and comfortable curled up in sheets trying to be warm, than feeling so hot and sweaty. Summer here in Australia could get really hot. Not only that, sometimes the air is dry. It dries your skin and you can’t even sweat. If I go out during the summer, I usually hang around inside shopping malls where it is air conditioned.

There are some “few” things I like about summer too ... but I have “more” things I like about winter. I actually said something more about this on the other thread.

http://www2.dailyroxette.com/smalltalk/thread.php/6735

T.G =)

Twilight-Ghost said on May 31, 2003 11:53:

Anarem,
You said:
“.....But when someone comes around and insults my and other people’s level of intelligence (with no legitimate evidence whatsoever to back up her claim), them’s fighting words.”

I feel the same, especially if it involves other people. For some reason I have this need to defend other people.

The trick is if someone offends you, say something clever to shut them up!

———

Thanks =)
Thanks for the info. I have the ’Biography’ channel on Foxtel cable. Maybe I’ll just wait for it.

About the musical episode, I really love musicals maybe that’s why I enjoyed that episode so much and I apologise for talking so much about it.

I know about BT being a common disease, it just made me wonder why it happened twice in Buffy. Couldn’t the writers think of other disease?

AngelussEvil16 said on July 15, 2003 06:08:

Ya know...just because people watch Buffy doesn’t mean we are psychotic idiots...or stupid, the smartest person in the world could love Buffy and would shut you down in a blink of an eye, so I’d shut your mouth, If you even watched one episode or two, you shouldn’t be talking...I thought the show wasn’t good UNTIL I read one of the books and watched an episode, now I love it and I absolutley HATE people who discriminate against fans just because the person thinks it’s weird or the show is stupid... I admit you ARE entitled to your own opinion, but please for everyone’s sake, don’t go spitting your hatred among fans of the show...you are probably outnumbered, honey.

coyboyusa said on July 17, 2003 12:14:

i thought the gay charater story spin was great it was just a shame why did they have to kill tara off... iw ish they had made xander gay ...onyl cause iw anted to see him run around in underwear lol