city_girl said on March 10, 2004 01:38:

still i don’t know why it matters to straight people cuz its not like they are gonna come to the gay weddings. and getting married, whether ur straight or not, its to share ur love for one another forever-to make it a lifetime commitment. not everybody hates gays u know. but like i said it shouldn’t matter to straight people cuz they are not gonna be in the wedding. its not gonna hurt the straight people.

roxtexanet said on March 10, 2004 07:19:

It mystifies me that this is such a controversial topic. Let’s see... two people want to publicly declare their commitment to one another, to the exclusion of all others. And this contributes to the moral decline of society how?! It’s all so ass-backwards... they can pass all the laws they want banning same-sex marriage, but the fact remains that if the people want it, it will happen sooner or later, like inter-racial marriage or gender equality. So let’s skip all the nonsense and just legalise it so we can get on to dealing with other social injustices! (-:

carbon_boy said on March 10, 2004 09:17:

Well said Judith! We for once agree on something ;o)

Cheers

m-cvk said on March 10, 2004 11:10:

I think that gay marriages should be legal (here in Holland it already is). I’m straight (not that it matters ’what’ you are) and I support gay marriages. A friend of mine is gay and she married last November, and I’ve been to an other gay marriage before and it’s great to celebrate such a happy day full of love :-) People who really love each other and want to marry should be able to do so. They all have my blessing (not that it will change the law, but it’s to show that there are straight people who support it)

I also think that it’s great to see famous gay people getting married (like Melissa Etheridge & Tammy, Eva & Efva etc.) Many people see them as role models and that might open ways to others :-)

@Judith: #5 is great!

Roxlander said on March 10, 2004 18:07:

All we must have the same rights, no matter what. I personally believe marriage is not a contract, and human laws have nothing to do with it. For me marriage is a matter of love, that easy.

But, well, I’m just a dreamer.

KixGuy said on March 10, 2004 21:06:

Well, I don’t believe in Church, though I do believe in God (or a power from above... whatever). And to me the only thing that matters is to have my rights recognized by law. Marriage in Church with the priest, all that stuff I personally think is such a big bullshit (and corny).

The Pope should represent God on Earth. Ok, but who gave him that power? Did you know that the Catholic Church accepts gay people. Yes, if they do not have sex... And the Pope doesn’t support the use of condoms either...

It may sound a bit utopic but, isn’t it better to have love between two guys or two girls than having no love at all? Excuse me all Roxers who are addicted to any religion, but repression sucks!

What gay people want is not a priest blessing them, with all the guests and a party (maybe some do), but gay people want their rights reserved. If a guy in the couple dies, who gets his things? His husband, the person who really was there for him, or his family, wich never gave him any support about his sexual orientation?

Think abou that...

pietROxette said on March 10, 2004 21:41:

OK, my post might be very unpopular among some people, but I really do not mean to offend anyone. However, I STRONGLY believe that marriage can only be between a woman and a man. I really don’t like when some homosexual people are saying that they don’t have the same rights as straight people. Why not? I think in all countries EVERY man has the right to marry a WOMAN and vica versa. So it’s absolutely pointless to say that gay people are discriminated. They have exactly the same rights as others. If I wanted to sound rude, I’d say if they aren’t happy with the situation, that’s their problem, but that would be really rude and offending. However, after talking to some gay people, I understand what they mean. I support their effort to have their relationship together ’legalised’, that is, if they live together for a while, it could be accepted in a similar way as marriage. That’s completely acceptable - however, the same way it must be made available for straight couples. This way there would be no discrimination.

I think that the main problem that puts many obstacles to this is that gay people almost always use the word ’marriage’. Since the majority of the population is not gay, many people feel offended, because they are socialised in a way (like me) where they were told that marriage is between a woman and a man. If you ask some people if they have anything against people of the same sex living together, most of them would say no, since they tolerate others. However, when you ask them if they should marry, most of them are against it. Simply because them, marriage means a man and a woman, just like the sky is blue and the grass is green. It’s part of the world around us, our culture, our beliefs, our society. I believe if gay people rather insisted on a legally accepted relationship than marriage, probably there would be way less offense against them. Because most people tolerate a different lifestyle - I say, poeple should live their life they way they like, if they are happy with it, unless they harm others. No-one says gay people are harming anyone. But try to understand that for most people, the meaning of the word ’marriage’ is so deep that they simlpy won’t accept that it can mean another kind of relationship as well. The more they hear about gay marriage, the more they feel offended and the more they are against it.

That’s my opinion, you don’t have to agree with it. I don’t think that my thoughts are narrow-minded or that I’m not open to new things, I just want to point out that there are things in life that are so essencial that they are better left unchanged.

city_girl said on March 10, 2004 22:02:

oh and piet the definition for marraige is not only “between a man and a woman,” it’s also a “union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage.” it shouldn’t matter to the straight community about gay marriages cuz its not like they are gonna go to the wedding unless they know someone that is-but they hav the choice to come or not.

pietROxette said on March 10, 2004 22:23:

@stillfar: please, don’t pretend that I’ve said something I didn’t.

“Not to long ago some countries didn’t permit interracial marriages…according to you, that’s not discrimination, because you still have the right to marry someone of the other sex.”
–>Who said that????? THAT’S discrimination!

” a gay man can get married to a lesbian woman and nobody can do thing about it.”
–>What’s the point in that? What’s the pont of marriage without love - especially between two homosexual poeple of the opposite sex? Who would do that and why?

“You could marry a person for immigration purposes and you just have to make sure that you appear to be married and nobody will have a problem with it.”
–>That’s illegal in many countries.

“Others marry people who are double, even tipple their age, to suck out some of the money that person made during his/her lifetime…maybe some feel offended, but it’s still happening”
–>Well, as they say, two makes a marriage. You can’t force someone to marry you just to be able to take his/her money. If someone pretends that he/she loves the other an only marries him/her to take that money - well, that person has a serious problem. I wouldn’t be able to look in the mirror if I did that.

I’m afraid you just didn’t get what I was talking about. You’ve quoted one sentence of a text, added something I’ve never said or meant, and discarded the whole point of my message.

StillFar said on March 11, 2004 14:41:

@pietro: I was on my way out when I read your post and I felt like I had to respond, which I did in a rush. Maybe I didn’t explain my points well enough…so here we go.

You’re saying that gay people aren’t discriminated against (in case of marriage) because they still have the right to marry a person of the opposite sex. Homosexuality isn’t a sickness or a preference, it’s an orientation. People are attracted to the same sex, like you are attracted to the opposite sex, it is not a choice. So to say that I still have the right to marry someone of the other sex is cynic. I don’t have the right to marry (if marriage indeed means what you claim it does), because I am not allowed to marry the person I’m romantically and sexually compatible with (I believe these are two important elements of whatever form of marriage).

Then you say “the meaning of the word ’marriage’ is so deep” and “there are things in life that are so essencial”. Pietro, I don’t know the marriage failure quote in your country, but in many countries every second marriage fails. People today marry for so many reasons (taxation, shared pensions, custody), we’re not living in a world anymore where people marry because they are about to start a family. So ask yourself if the meaning of the word marriage is still as deep and profound as it was during the time of your grandparents. The institution marriage – as far as I know – was created to protect families. Legally you’re not required to love the person you’re with, you’re not required to plan on having children…so those values people are talking about, maybe they should be re-thought.

I’m gay and I’ve never really made up my mind about gay marriages. I used to think that civil unions are enough, as long as they give us full rights. At least that step is absolutely necessary and in my opinion it’s an outrage that many countries still don’t have them. But then I know a number of gay and lesbian couples who are parents of a new generation. Once these children are going to school, they should feel and know that the relationship of their parents is as important to society as the relationships of any other kids’ parents. That said, I think we should have gay marriages. We should grow up without questioning the quality of the relationship between two loving people; we should consider it as normal, as right and not as a union second class.

Now please answer me one question: If I’d marry my partner, who would that in any way affect your life?

lawyer said on March 11, 2004 16:08:

Comment removed by author

coyboyusa said on March 12, 2004 15:31:

its not that there age gays agains marriage we are againts the step backwards this is taking us. the venture is more about power of attorney and money than it is about equality. its us as a minority embracing a concept that a biased minority embraces...it makes us look a bit hypocritial. I don’t need to be married to someone to be deemed normal and acceptable in society. Do we really need gay divorce rate statistics. dont get me wrong love is a wonderful thing, and with a good lawyer 2 loving partners can still par off power of attorney and sign contractual ” gay prenup’ if they want to. Embracing the concept of marriage while there are still gay kids being beat to death and an ever rising hiv infection rate yet again in the gay community I think we have alot more important issues to be focusing on

Claire said on March 15, 2004 11:38:

yep i agree with u cowboy, thats kinda what i meant anyway about marriage being a step backwards...

coyboyusa said on April 21, 2004 05:35:

honestly i think this just paralles the death of activism and concern in the gay community overall.

we’ve made mistakes
the first is this flamboyant out in your face drag queen lunacy we pushed in the 80’s. if we want to be accepted(keyword) pushing the envelope of promiscuity and eccentricity isn’t gonna win peopel over
we used the wrong words in our activism. I don’t want to be ” tolerated” like some pest I want to be accepted! I am human, I am man and I am no different than anyone else
we made the mistake of paralleling our cause with that of black civil rights. Last time i checked hairdressers and drag queens were not enslaved. And honestly the whole reverse racism that has arisen out of black rights sheds an even more negative light on paralleling our cause with black civil rights.
The marriage initiative has alot of people in the community questioning why its so important. Just 3 days ago in california a 17 yr old transgender kid was beaten to death and burried in a shallo grave by an interstate by 2 other boys he had sex with. Isn’t it more important to start getting an education elemnt about homosexuality to the youth of the world instead of getting some marriage that indoctrinates you under an institution that wants u dead and honeslty, the big push for marriage is more about monetary things like tax breaks and child support alot more than love or committment, hell there are gay couples that were together 50 yrs and they didnt need a liscence , paper or ” holy blessing” to legitimize their love

coyboyusa said on April 21, 2004 13:38:

the same coward that is pulling out of iraq?

Santi said on April 21, 2004 14:52:

The difference between dictatorship and democracy is that in democracy is the people that chooses, and in dictatorship a leader does what he pleases regardless of what people says.

Rodríguez Zapatero is not any coward, Spanish people is almost totally against this war, there were hundreds of demonstrations that Aznar despised when being president, and he lied and he’s out for that. You may not know that Rodríguez Zapatero won the elections simply because of promising he would bring back our soldiers from this stupid war, so be more careful with what you say, USA may be a country that loves wars but in Spain we’re more than fed up.

harriej said on April 25, 2004 21:05:

coyboyusa: The spanish are right to go out of iraq!

And to respond to the topic: Everybody should have the right to marry the person he/she loves, no matter if it is a person of the same or the opposite sex.

StillFar said on April 26, 2004 15:49:

LOL your next president will be busy enough cleaning up the mess of the current president and the way it looks right now he might just need all the money to finance the social programs in HIS country (which by the way aren’t that great if you traveled a bit my friend)

lawyer said on April 26, 2004 19:27:

Comment removed by author

thecla said on April 28, 2004 02:03:

i’m all for it - find a nice gal, have a wedding, have a party, get cool merchandise and cash, my little sister got to get all that when she married a man, i just want to have the same things as anybody else.
just need to find someone to marry now !

coyboyusa said on April 29, 2004 22:52:

shame she now is trying so hard to look like sarach mclachlan :)

Jud (moderator) said on May 3, 2004 15:25:

:O:O this is what happens when we stop watching the playground for the weekend! :O

This is about GAY MARRIAGES just in case somebody has missed reading the subject so stick to IT and stop generalizing - which is also sign of being a fanatic in a way ;)

Thank you

kwelis_girl said on May 11, 2004 18:30:

I don’t know why gay marriages bother so many people. It’s none of ur fuckin business! People can’t help who they are. Not legalizing gay marriages in the US is like saying “Oh sorry but we’re gonna punish you because you’re different.” It’s bull shit really. Besides there are way more other things that we have to focus on like the war for instance than some stupid controversey over gay marriages.

They SHOULD legalize gay marriages. Fuck what Bush says!

ally77 said on May 11, 2004 19:30:

I’m all for it... at the end of the day as long as your happy, go for it...

coyboyusa said on May 14, 2004 13:20:

if you dont live in my country u have no right to critizie the government or its citicens live here and learn :)

purplemedusa said on May 14, 2004 17:36:

“if you dont live in my country u have no right to critizie the government” => funny, isn’t that what Americans do best? -> concerned about other’s issues under the excuse of (for example) global Security.

As Judith once told you => try & broaden your knowledge a little beyond what is being spoonfed to you!

coyboyusa said on May 14, 2004 22:15:

uhm lol global security in deed it was the world that put america in the position of haveing to police the world and when we don’t its always ” where were the americans” see this is how hypocritical the world is. You’
re all 2 faced.. you hate america and its ideals and morals, then u send ur kids here to go to schoool, you come here to earn money and send it home oto your families. you come here to bleed my health care system and social systems, you guys are hypocrits. God forbid an american president actually gets an ounce of balls and tells you all to sodd of , screw foreign aid and policing the world, you guys will do what u did during ww2 bend over and let another hitler route your tubes :)

Santi said on May 24, 2004 06:52:

So if no one can critisice America because we don’t live there, how do you dare to say anything about Zapatero, about any European country or even about Saddam himself?
Have you ever lived outside your pond?

And about the “World Police”. It’s America the one that has positioned themselves as that just because the state must preserve the interests of their companies worldwide. It’s business, not charity, and if you dare to say this is not true you really are showing off how clever you are.

purplemedusa said on May 24, 2004 21:31:

Oooo... coyboy’s on a roll tonight!

Santi said on May 25, 2004 02:56:

And how do you name to prevent Hispanic and Black people from voting because they weren’t voting for Bush (Florida 2000)?... oh, right, you call that “American Democracy”... what we all are longing for.........

Look, coming back to the subject of this thread, you can feel sorry for all of us non American, but see we don’t give a damn. In my country people like you are going to have the recognised rights that any other kind of couple has, and that’s a step forward in my opinion. Feel sorry while you keep on voting a bunch of warmakers that think you are a disease and that without people like you the world would be perfect. You might even like that, what makes you apart from gay a masochist... which I guess is another disease to be erased for Bush!

I bet you like him to be mean to you, to be a sadist... but wait, he is one in fact! If not ask the poor American soldiers who still are asking themselves what are they doing in the Middle East, and the poor families who lost many (already too many!) young relatives and nobody dared to even explain to them how the event happened. Of course a lot of senators have their sons fighting in Irak...

Do you really think we do not have access to American media?

And last and most difficult remarks/questions. Do you really think the USA is like a big NGO? Do you know many evil dictators were put in place by your presidents? Do you know Bin Laden and Saddam were given power by the USA? Do you know America is not the center of the universe, the earth... damn, America is not even America!!! (there’s a long way from Ushuaia, Argentina to Alert, Canada). Have you ever opened a book?