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WAR
80 replies
vaxjoe said on September 27, 2002 16:53:
so it looks like its almost sure that a war is going to happen soon...noone succeeded in convincing bush...neither europe nor his congresso...im worried cause my region is one of the potential targets as there is a u.s. base here and its the closest one to middle east...in 2days all european ministers of defence have a meeting in a town near where i live and its all over the news that there is concern that an attack may occure :(
i wish all this madness would just stop!
no more victims no more wars no more hate!
“LOOK AT YOUR YOUNG MEN FIGHTING/LOOK AT YOUR WOMEN CRYING/LOOK AT YOUR YOUNG MEN DYING/THE WAY THEY VE ALWAYS DONE BEFORE/LOOK AT THE HATE WE’RE BREEDING/LOOK AT THE FEAR WE RE FEEDING/LOOK AT THE LIVES WE RE LEADING/THE WAY THEY VE ALWAYS DONE BEFORE/
MY HANDS ARE TIED/THE BILLIONS SHIFT FROM SIDE TO SIDE/AND THE WARS GO ON WITH BRAINWASHED PRIDE/FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AND OUR HUMAN RIGHTS/AND ALL THESE THINGS ARE SWEPT ASIDE/MY BLOODY HANDS TIME CANT DENY/AND ARE WASHED AWAY BY YOUR GENOCIDE/AND THE HISTORY HIDES THE LIES OF OUR CIVIL WARS....
lonely_girl said on September 27, 2002 18:44:
Bush is just too silly to think about what could happen if he starts another war... :((
zeeshan said on September 27, 2002 19:51:
@vaxjoe: I hate to say this but yeah take care. After reading your posts on the jonas aukerland thread I really wanted to kill ya myself (kiddin’) well to be honest I was disappointed at you but somehow I don’t feel that *specially* after reading this. I think if things go wrong u shud relocate to a saffer place.
Would someone PLEASEEE tell Bush to stop messing around with the world??
No to WAR, Yes to Peace, Peace for ALL!
Zee
spookymeg said on September 27, 2002 20:40:
Someone should stop Bush!!! He thinks he’s the owner of the world or what???
vaxjoe said on September 27, 2002 20:50:
thank u all and u zee :) it was very brave of u to give a wish :)
LittleSpooky said on September 28, 2002 04:00:
While I am not in favour of war, let me pose something to you all, in hopes of getting you to think:
Men like Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and others don’t care about what YOU want. They want what they want. Right now, the biggest goal is to bring the “free world” to its collective knees. It was not much over a year ago that damn near EVERY nation in the world pledged their support in the war against terror.
The first country to do so was Russia. To them, a little payback for the “embarassment” that they suffered in their war with Afghanistan. Next was Great Britian. Then Canada, followed by Ireland on its heels. Not long after, just about every country was in this for the rough and tumble.
Now, just over a year later, most of those countries are cowering in the corners, whimpering and simpering. They don’t wanna fight. Hate to say this folks, but wake up and smell the Napalm. If men like bin Laden and Hussien continue to go unchecked, you can bet every last dime, ruble, peseta, (whatever you have for pocket change) that these boys will drop a nuclear bomb on YOUR front door.
Someone has got an itchy trigger finger to test out their new nuke toy, and I REALLY don’t wanna find out what Nuke Winter looks like first hand. Someone has got to stop guys like this. And since no one else has the testicular fortitude, who does it fall to? The US and anyone else who joins the scrap.
Everyone here is blaming Bush for this. Knock it off. If everyone would quit asking for aid from the US and the UN and others, we’d leave you the hell alone. But oh no, SOMEONE has to go and ask for help. Then what happens? 9-11. That’s right. We helped these individuals because they ASKED US TOO. Unfortunately, the world got a kick in the ass for the effort.
I say the world because of the simple fact that American’s weren’t the only ones who died that day. But you forget that in your desire to place the blame solely on the US. Guess what??? I’M TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!! You wanna bash the US, FINE. But do remember one thing:
One of these days, you’re gonna want help from someone, somewhere, for whatever reason. And the overwhelming response will be to stick a sock in it, cuz we don’t wanna hear about it.
I, personally, did NOTHING to men like bin Laden and Hussein, yet I have a death sentance hanging over my head because I was born American. And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon about the Isreali / Palestinian war that’s been going on forever: Those are YOUR fellow countrymen you’re wiping out. They aren’t foreigners. Just people with different beliefs than your own.
Flame away, I know it’s coming and I don’t care.
Mfan28179-Jason said on September 28, 2002 04:13:
LittleSpooky, you nailed it. This is exactly what I was thinking after reading the first few posts. Good points.
LittleSpooky said on September 28, 2002 04:24:
Thanks Jas.
I’m not trying to belittle the fact that this is going to be ugly, and that lives are going to be lost: Men, women, and children. I just want people to stop blaming those that actually answer their cry for help. That’s all. For those who are in the area, my thoughts and prayers are with you in the hopes that you miss the brunt of all of this and come out on top.
You face a tough time ahead and need all the support you can get. Just don’t shove it back in my face because I don’t agree with anything you’ve said.
zeeshan said on September 28, 2002 06:13:
If so is the case then why don’t they kill Bin Laden and Saddam directly?? Sure it is not difficult for America... infact.. such kinda job is not difficult for anyone. Secondly.. a substantial proof should be provided to the whole world then action should be taken. I guess if Saddam is making any nukes (which I heavily doubt) and is planning to go for Chemcial warfare.. then only he shud be terminated... the people of IRAQ are already suffering a lot, any more misery in their life could lead to Extreme measure against US and also UK.
Lets all hope for the peace. May we all live in peace whereever we are.
Zee
LittleSpooky said on September 28, 2002 06:24:
I will refrain from further comment for the fact that to explain it properly, would wind up offending someone, somewhere.
I will say this though: It’s hard to for them to go in and get the job done, when one wrong move will cost you an alliance YEARS down the road. Not to mention someone ELSE pulling the pocketbook strings. No money, no go. Simple.
shama said on September 28, 2002 09:23:
@littlespooky US was the country that helped talibans to gain controll over afganistan. i think, though i am against war, iraq should let the UN’s men in without any conditions or get ready for an attack. but many of the problems were caused by US and so US should resolve them. but WITH the permission of UN. without that i don’t agree with the attack. but yes, something bust be done - or we’ll aall pay for it later.
but it’s not easy topic and there always is some “but”.
but all of you who think that i don’t like america and that i think bush sucks are right. but i’m opened for the critic. bush is ******************
coyboyusa said on September 28, 2002 15:02:
sadam hussein has violated un treaties and declarations for over 15 yrs. lets be honest...i think every country has a right to defend itslef ...even iraq. but if his links to binladen are true, dont we as a democratic world have a responsibility to get him out of power?
and no the us didnt put the taliban in power the saudis / pakistan did
zeeshan said on September 28, 2002 16:13:
@Coyboy: who told ya that Pakistan put them in power?? :D Shama is right US did it back in cold war days. Mr. Saddam was American Government’s fav. person when he was fighting against IRAN. The same goes for bin laden when he was envolved in Soviet war in Afghanistan. It is HEAVY MEDIA PROPAGANDA so plezzz don’t believe that Pakistan gave “power”. It was and IS Pakistan’s top priority to have safe border with Afghanistan since we can’t afford to have to enemy forces at 2 ends (the other one has India with it’s millitary eyeball to eyeball with Pak’s millitary). If war is thrust upon Iraq, I guess innocent people in US will have to have severe concequences. The general public has done NOTHING.. so they shud not be punished for anything. That goes for both US and Iraq, Afghanista.
Today US gave a 2 week deadline for UN to act or it will act alone so the possiblity of war seems to be at its highest now.
Zee
camillarox said on September 28, 2002 16:17:
@zeeshan: how do you want a “secret service office” (FBI, CIA) go and catch those guys when they were not even able to find out that Bin Laden´s organisation was planning an attack to the states by crashing planes on important buildings?
They even interfeered -however you write this - a coded message on 10th that they did not translate till the 12nd (guess they were too busy convincing themselves that they are best on Earth) and it was saying that 11th was the day.
They got a lot of warnings, tips, and they ignored it...
This about the war (first Afganistan, now Iraq) is just a way to keep US people busy thinking about this instead of letting them think about the failures of their goverment/country...and they are succeeding.
I forgot to say that you don´t need to live China and have some banned access to certain sites to live out of this world, you just need to listen to CNN:
US supported the Talibans when Russia was in war with Afganistan/Talibans, by that time Russia and US were in the “I am not friend anymore!” period, so US just backed Talibans up to go against Russia. Without US, Talibans wouldn´t have had the power to win Russia (URSS by that time).
nelina said on September 28, 2002 16:55:
vaxjoe, I agree that another war in Iraq will be a madness. A lot of people will be killed, many more will suffer. But I really don’t think that our country will be that affected. It is true that we are near Middle East, but the first targets will be the countries near Iraq that will collaborate with the US, if they do. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel of course!
The real point is that thousands will suffer in this continuous hell!
japeke said on September 28, 2002 17:38:
You are all right..... ALL bad things in the world have to stop... But how??? There is no-one who can stop bad things.....
All people in ’dangerous areas’ (isn’t the whole world an dangeours area at the moment???)
SUCCESS!!!!!!
Jaap
LittleSpooky said on September 28, 2002 19:46:
For those that missed it the first time around (and I know a lot of you are quick to jump up and beat on the anti-American/Bush/whatever drum because I’ve been watching it lately enough), let me repost it in simple terms so you get it:
“Everyone here is blaming Bush for this. Knock it off. If everyone would quit asking for aid from the US and the UN and others, we’d leave you the hell alone. But oh no, SOMEONE has to go and ask for help. Then what happens? 9-11. That’s right. We helped these individuals because they ASKED US TOO. Unfortunately, the world got a kick in the ass for the effort.”
Run that through your translators 3 or 4 times so you get it right. No one here ever CLAIMED that the US didn’t put these men in power. In my own happy little world, I say “No shit sherlock!!! I KNOW we put them there. And this is what happened.” But you know what? NOBODY’S PERFECT!!! How many other countries put someone in power that started out as an ally and then wound up being the enemy down the road?
History is riddled with cases like that. As a parting throught:
You don’t like? GET OFF MY PLANET!!! If all you can do is whine about what’s gonna happen, go annoy someone else. I say it’s about damn time and let’s DO IT RIGHT THIS TIME.
zeeshan said on September 28, 2002 19:46:
@zeeshan: how do you want a “secret service office” (FBI, CIA) go and catch those guys when they were not even able to find out that Bin Laden´s organisation was planning an attack to the states by crashing planes on important buildings?
__________________________________________________
@camillarox: I cudn’t understand that.
_______________________________________________
This about the war (first Afganistan, now Iraq) is just a way to keep US people busy thinking about this instead of letting them think about the failures of their goverment/country...and they are succeeding.
_______________________________
I 500% agree with ya. I saw CNN and they were saying that Bush’s popularity has increased to 60% while it was hanging over 50% back in Presidential elections. So, yup it is workin’
___________________________________
you just need to listen to CNN:
___________________________________
You gota see FOX... it is worst than CNN.
____________________________________
US supported the Talibans when Russia was in war with Afganistan/Talibans, by that time Russia and US were in the “I am not friend anymore!” period, so US just backed Talibans up to go against Russia. Without US, Talibans wouldn´t have had the power to win Russia (URSS by that time).
______________________________________
That is exactly what I have been trying to tell people.
______________________________________
@jepeke: I can answer your question but it will take a LOT of time and energy (and I lack both ’em right now). In simple words.. there is always a way out... you just need to think a bit more optimistically.
Zee
vaxjoe said on September 29, 2002 03:12:
@ little spooky: i dont u to write anymore advertisement in my topic! U KNOCK IT OFF! and what was that “GET OF MY PLANET”? u get off mine!
all we ever said in here that we DONT WANT ANY WARS no matter whos in war with who! got it?
i dont care if its bush against sadam or whoever the hell it is! noone blamed states or any other country or its ppl!
but yes we can blame the leaders....so if u cant think str8 cause your mind is brainwashed DO NOT COME IN HERE AND SPREAD IT AROUND!
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
DaminehGessle said on September 29, 2002 03:59:
I don’t know if any of you guys has ever been in a country in war. I have. The reason they’re starting a war with Iraq is not Saddam or Osama Bin Laden. It’s oil and gas. Why is the US so concerned about neighbours’ safety all of a sudden? Why are they thinking of Saddam Hossein as threat all of a sudden? Why did they start the whole thing in Afghanistan? Was it because of Osama Bin Laden? No! Look at Afghanistan today. Afghanistan is a military base for the US these days. They’ve put their own people in power. Do you think Bush cares about what Iraqi people go through? Do you think he cared what Afghan people were going through? Afghanistan had been suffering for years. Why did they not try to save women and children then?? And now Saddam is a threat to the world? just because Iraq has nuclear bombs? So yeah now we bomb the hell out of any country which has nuclear power plants. Who should be the first to go down? Well we all now that the US has the best military aircrafts and nuclear power. Why shouldn’t the US stop making F-22’s or atomic bombs?
and one other thing... On TV the only bad thing that Iraq has done is the Gulf War. That’s the only thing they have done wrong in American’s eyes. Why don’t they talk about the war between Iraq and Iran? Is that because the whole world was behind Iraq helping Saddam in bombing the hell out of Iran?? Who started the whole thing? Saddam?? Hell no! He didn’t have enough people and power to get the war going. Yes, the whole world specially the United Stated of America and Britain were supporting Iraq. Why didn’t they stop Iraq then? Oh let me think. Cause they could get their oil for cheaper. Well then they supported the dude. Now they have to pay. It’s just a game guys. Bush doesn’t care about Iraq. He doesn’t care about what Iranians have been going through for 24 years. He doesn’t care about Afghanistan. He doesn’t even care about the events of September 11th. All he cares about is to invade the Middle East so that he can have a say in whatever goes on there. Persian emperor went down. Rome emperor went down. Once you are up there, you gotta be careful. Cause you climb to the top of the mountain with the help of others. You gotta be careful not to fall down and I believe one day, the American emperor will go down, just like the rest of the ancient emperors. I just wish we could all sit around and enjoy this life instead of killing each other.
One love One blood One life
You got to do what you should
One life
With each other
Sisters Brothers One life
But we’re not the same
We get to
Carry each other
DaminehGessle said on September 29, 2002 04:03:
@freshold: They were celebrating so what?? Did you shed tears for all those people whom have ever died in war anywhere on this planet? There is always a reaction to any action. Maybe that’s how they reacted to one of so many things the US has done to so many people all around the world all these days: Vietnam war, Hiroshima, Iran-Iraq war and so on... Open up your eyes. Oh I forgot. There are many blind people out there.
vaxjoe said on September 29, 2002 04:34:
@DaminehGessle: i agree on what u say about the real reason for the war -the oils-
anyone who believes that bush is the good man who wants to protect the good ppl from the bad and nasty is just....naive!
zeeshan said on September 29, 2002 08:38:
@DaminehGessle: I cudn’t have said all that better myself. Well said bro.
Also the people they were showing DANCING on the streets was an OLD movie taken from CNNs library. The people were dancing in joy of something else and as far as I remember it was a 2 year old movie that they played after 11th of September. Later this fact was opened by the inside men at BBC.
Remove BUSH and their shall be peace for sometime but what the hack? any other person wud take his place and start ruling the world and going after the oils. The American nation in general think that US laned in Afghanistan to fight idiot Talibans who barely had rockets, guns to fight a whole army?? heheheh no they didn’t. Believe it or not but some of the US troops were telling that they are here only to have a major presense in this area since they will be closer to CHINA, IRAN and Pakistan hence Asia’s Big powers. Bin Laden and Mullah Omer are no headaches for US. It is their regional presense which is important. As a proof you can now see that Talibans have vanished, so has Mullah Umer and Bin Laden, there is a new government in Afghanistan so apparently all is well but US has NO plans to leave Afghanistan.
vaxjoe said on September 29, 2002 10:42:
fresh what the hell are you talking about when u say that “his nation” must be destroyed? are u in favour of a whole nations suicide? cause if u are then u remind me a lot of hitler....
freshold said on September 29, 2002 10:54:
“thanx” very much for comparing me to hitler. People who let hussein collect his weapons sound more like hitler to me.
Jud (moderator) said on September 29, 2002 14:27:
True that here you are insulted just because you express your opinion. Just look for some post about 11/9 and you will see ;)
I am against war - just because the people who suffer are not those who started it/those who are the reason for starting it (in this case would be Bush and Hussein) but the soldiers involved, the citizens who have nothing to do with that and are just trying to live their lives.
I have heard enough about war (in Spain with Franco) from my grandad and grandma. He was just living his live as a farmer and was called to go to war, and had to spend 5 years in a camp in France, while my grandma had to raise my dad on her own.
Btw, the media - again - just showed some Iraq-people celebrating the 11/9 attack. But Iraq is so big and I believe there were others who were sorry for that. Just as not all Israelians are against Palestina. Just as not all Germans/Austrians are (neo)nazis. And I could go on...but guess/hope you get what I mean.
**waiting to be flamed** ;)
zeeshan said on September 29, 2002 16:54:
@freshold: U r insane or what?? I truely agree with what you said above VOXJOE
DaminehGessle said on September 29, 2002 18:43:
@freshold: why is it so important that a country such as Iraq has weapons? As I said above, any country with enough money in fact does have weapons. I mean they have to have weapons and military bases just in case. If Iraq is supposed to not have weapons of any kind, then the US, Britain, Russia, Germany, China, Iran and the rest of the world should all destroy any kind of weapon they have. We will then be able to live in peace. If I’m Saddam Hussein and I know that one day [just because my country is in the most important region on this planet] I would be some guy’s target, I would definitely collect weapons. Why not? If the US has spy aircrafts and does have weapons of mass destruction, why not me and my people? What is wrong with that anyways??? If I am a nuthead and God knows what I’ll do with my weapons, then Bush is a nuthead too and so are the rest of the world leaders. I would say hell with you all. If I am going down, you are all going down with me. If I have to get rid of my weapons, you will have to get rid of yours too.
Oh and also, I don’t think you know what exactly war is. I don’t know what kind of war you have seen, but I believe you haven’t seen a mother who’s lost 5 sons and a husband and a few brothers and .... I have. You probably haven’t seen a 22-year old boy who’s lost all his beloveds and his identity at the age of 3 in war. I have. You probably haven’t waken up at 3AM seeing your street lightened by the flames and the harsh sound of a bomb dropped just a couple of streets away. So lucky not been hit.
War is scary. I didn’t die in war. I didn’t fight. But I am still scared of harsh sounds. Tears come when I watch people in war. Cause I have seen what it’s like to be in a country in war for freaking 8 years. Doesn’t matter if I’m Canadian, American, Iraqi, Afghan, Brit, Iranian or French: war is war. Innocent people get killed. You should feel the depth. It should touch your heart. If it doesn’t and you still believe that the US must bomb the hell out of Iraq which would definitely kill millions and millions of people, then yes you in fact think just like Hitler. Hitler was just a guy too. Bush is too. You are as well. On the other hand, we have Lennons, Gandhis, Marleys and those who fought for their beliefs on peace. Why think Hitlerish, Musulinish, Bushish when we can think Lennonish, Marleyish and Gandhish?? There is a fine line between bad and good. Why not being the good guy? Selfishness is the answer.
It’s a screwed up world out there. If each and every one of us fight against war and hunger hand in hand, trust me, we WILL have a better world.
coyboyusa said on September 29, 2002 20:41:
it was pakistan that encouraged the un to allow talban and the peshtune tribe to assume power in afghanistan...and i dont ever recall us considering saddam a friend ever get YOUR facts str8
zeeshan said on September 29, 2002 20:51:
@coyboyusa: I should get my facts? READ this history and you will know it!!!!!!!!!! search the articles on Internet concerning IRAQ/IRAN war and u will know. KID
DaminehGessle said on September 30, 2002 04:39:
@coyboyus: You are a typical American who has no clue what has ever happened out there in the REAL world. The United States of America encouraged Iraq to get into a war with Iran. Iran had one of the strongest military and air force in the world before the revolution. They brought in Khomeini not knowing what kind of person he was. After the revolution he went against the US needs and ofcourse, the US wanted to weaken Iraq. Who’d be better than Iraq, a neighbour. So they started the war and the whole time, US helped Iraq with weapons and aircrafts. Not only the US, but also the whole world went against Iran and helped Iraq in this. Read some books. It will definitely help you to understand the world better. It’s disappointing to see ignorant creatures like you living on this planet.
LittleSpooky said on September 30, 2002 05:37:
Stop right there. I am offended by the words “typical American”. I have lived overseas and know damn good and well what the opinon of everyone is about the US. I resent uppity bastards like you who lump us all together in the same category.
Who are you? Are you a terrorist Afghani? Are you a Communist Dictator? Or are you a stupid American?
zeeshan said on September 30, 2002 06:30:
@LittleSpooky: Although I understand why you are getting offened but now ( I guess ) you know how muslims think cuz we get to hear on the western media that Muslims are terrorists. Did you ever ask any of your friends, relatives, media-men who are they to catergorize us? or mix religion with terrorism???
@DaminehGessle: Please read an article which I posted as “The demands of global capitalism”. It explains most of the things which happened in the past, which are happeneing and whigh will happen in future. CoyBoyUsa, even after reading all that didn’t believe it so nothing in the world can change such people (I am not being sarcastic).
Zee
vaxjoe said on September 30, 2002 14:40:
BY THE WAY IT WAS JUST ON THE NEWS THAT IRAQ HAS THE INTENSION (IF USA GOES ON WITH THE WAR PLAN) TO
H I T
THOSE 3 POSSIBLE TARGETS WITHIN THE FEW DAYS:
GREECE-TURKEY-CYPRUS
I LIVE IN GREECE TO THE PLACE WHERE U.S. NAVY BASE IS...
SO IF U DONT LISTEN FROM ME WITHIN THE NEXT WEEKS....U KNOW
FINALLY I HOPE THE SMARTASSES WILL SHUT UP EVENTUALLY....
TO THE OTHERS I LOVE U...PEACE :)
roxchurch said on September 30, 2002 15:13:
I understand that most of american or ppl who lost their friends in WTC want some kind of revenge..
but war is not the way ....
The war (that someone call STRIKE) is not a TV show on CNN.
Lets remember last World war– 50 000 000 ppl died
and most of the towns in Europe was totaly destroy!!!
so in each day between 1941 and 1945 died more than 25 000 ppl
so pleace try to remember each of days between 11.09.2001 and 11.09.2002
try to imagine that every day 25 000 ppl of you country died and at least 2
buldings fall down–EVERY DAY!!!
than try to imagine that this would happen the next 4 years–EVERY DAY!!!
think a little bout that and give peace another change!!
zeeshan said on September 30, 2002 16:23:
@roxchurch: many people don’t wana even THINK left alone “imagining” all that. Nice try though.. you never know what might work on such kinds.
Zee
DaminehGessle said on September 30, 2002 16:37:
@LittleSpookey:
Thank you for calling me all those names. I am not a Muslim. I am myself. I have my own beliefs. I am not a terrorist. I can not even kill an ant.
“I resent uppity bastards like you who lump us all together in the same category.” The way you try to get your way shows your personality. You can’t win your way by swearing and beating the hell out of people in here.
A typical American is one who doesn’t know anything about history. All they care about is their country and their good. I am a Canadian citizen but I know all about the world and have travelled everywhere. I am not stupid. I know what goes on out there. People like you DON’T.
@Zeeshan: I know. I am 22 and I have seen many just like LittleSpookey and the coyboy dude. Some people are born wise enough to change the world. Some are born stupid to ruin it and others suffer with their stupidity.
@vaxjoe: Good luck dude. I hope they don’t hit you.
Also, why do you think the whole 911 thing was sad?? So what? 3000 people died? I am sorry. But look at all the war casualties in Hiroshima, Vietnam, Iran and Iraq... Did you know more than 1 million people died in the Iran war? Do you know how many people lost their legs, brain, eyes and .... which ofcourse doesn’t count towards the casualties. 3000 people died. I am sorry. But that’s how it works when the US doesn’t mind their business and start wars in places they can’t even reach. 3000 is nothing compared to those war casualties. NOTHING.
Roxrider_USA said on September 30, 2002 16:39:
Hello!
It’s really sad and unfortunate if Saddam goes on and strikes Greece-Turkey-Cyprus. However, if the news from which this info comes is true, it just goes to show why Mr. Saddam have to be removed from power.
—> Do you guys really think that a man who intendes to hit those 3 countries and place his military personel and weapons in urban/city areas where many civilians live to deter any US strike and let out his anger on countries that have nothing to do with this issue should be left in power ??? If so, it’s sad and really naive of you. However, if not, then you agree with me and that Mr. Saddam is dangerous and, therefore, should be removed from power.
Please try to not dislike or “hate” americans even though its a right people have, ’cause if i understood correctly some of the posts in this thread, you guys want peace and not war, but i really doubt that “hate” or dislike will ever lead to peace.
Take care everyone!!
Carlos E., New York!
Vixzter said on September 30, 2002 16:53:
Do you know what the sad thing is.......you can’t be..... American....Muslim ....British....Pakistani.....Afgan......Israeli....Palestinian.....German....French....Spanish....Russian.... etc etc ....without someone wanting to take a pop at you for what you’re beliefs are.....there will never be peace in the world because someone somewhere will always be trying to force their beliefs on others.
DaminehGessle said on September 30, 2002 16:58:
@Roxrider: Noone hates Americans. I mean I don’t. I worked in the US as an engineering intern for quite a while on military aircrafts even though I am 22. I liked it. But I had to struggle with most people’s beliefs in other nation. Not everyone though. Instead of going off on them, I showed them: pictures of Canada which they think is a village, pictures of Iran which they think is a desert, told them my stories from living in Iran, Canada, Europe and other places. That made an impact on them. I didn’t brainwash them. I showed them the real world out there not what they see on tv. I am totally against any hatred and war.
One other thing: Noone likes Saddam. Not even his own people. Yes he is threat to others. But why does the United States of America cares so much about it? If he is a threat, so is Bush. Anyone who talks about war is a threat. Yes, what happened on September 11th was sad but not as sad as what the US has done to many countries. Trust me. I have seen it with my own eyes. If president Bush had not talked about getting in war with Iraq, Saddam wouldn’t even talk about hitting Greece and ... As I said above, Newton’s third law states that for every force there is an equal and opposite force. Meaning for every action, there is a reaction. For example, if you push on a wall, it will push back on you as hard as you are pushing on it. You hit a ball, it hits the spring attached to the wall and will hit you even harder. That works with all this hatred as well. I believe you are smart enough to understand what I mean.
DaminehGessle said on September 30, 2002 17:13:
I was just watching the CNN live from Pentagon. It’s funny how the US and UK have been watching IRaq forever. I mean come on. Imagine aircrafts flying over your head every day watching what you do. Would you not get mad? Who has the right to say my country has violated any law if I have aircrafts and weapons myself? Selfishness again!
-Gee- said on September 30, 2002 18:11:
WAR is the product of two or more important men who are to stupid for their business.
And now cut the crap....and pray for peace
Roxrider_USA said on September 30, 2002 18:21:
@ DaminehGessle: Nice interpretation of Newton’s Third Law. Btw, isn’t it really interesting ? :-) !!
I perfectly understand what you mean by “the world out there”. Trust me i also know how things are out there. I’m brazilian and i have been living in the USA for 5 years. I’m sure that you are aware of the fact that Brazil is one of the most peaceful contries concerning international politcs and relations. So, although, i’m a really peaceful person, i strongly believe that Mr. Saddam must be removed from power. Okay, If the US doesn’t remove him from power, who will ? Iraq’s people? I don’t think they will ever do that while Mr. Saddam is in power simply because they are scared of him. Moreover, as you stated that everyone knows that Mr. Saddam is a threat to the world, i just want to know who will deal with him if the US were to decide that it won’t care about what Mr. Saddam does. Likewise, who will deal with the Israeli-Palestinian issue if the US also stops worrying about it since the European Union is constantly calling on the US to send representatives there and deal with that problem? Additionally, now even Vladmir Putin, Russia’s president, wants the US to help Russia deal with the Chechenya issue. I hope everyone notices that the World is always expecting the US to solve problems and deal with issues all over the planet. The international community itself makes the US be involved in everything that goes on on this planet of ours.
Relating to the spying issue, it is known that enemies are always spying on each other so they never are attacked by surprise. It has always been like that in history. (During the horrible Cold War, it was the case with the US and the now extintc USSR). Also, Newton’s Thrid Law nicely applies to that era in which the US and the USSR were the major world powers. Both countries balanced each other. The US exerted a force on the USSR while the USSR exerted a force on the US. Nice concept, isn’t it?
I want to thank you for this nice debate we are having, even though the topic of it is a rather disturbing and unfortunate one.
Take care people!
Carlos E., New York!
zeeshan said on September 30, 2002 19:51:
@DaminehGessle: Yes, you are right. I believe YOU are one of the rare ones who actually know what the world is like out there. Only because you have seen all that andddd also the stuff they show on the idiot box. So, I hope and pray that you will keep on spreading the “REAL” truth as we badly need guys like you.
@Roxrider_USA: I guess DaminehGessle answered your question. To every action there is a reaction. I know this is wrong.. TRUELY wrong and I will pray my heart out that this miserable war will not occur and people Cyprus, Greece and Turkey won’t face war concequences “BUT” lets recall the post 9/11 days. America said “If you are NOT with us you are with Terrorists”. What does this means? Suppose you are the president of a country which does not want WAR in Afghanistan and USA asks you to either be with them and be bombed as well.. how will you feel?? You will feel “WHO THE HELL IS THIS TO ORDER ME?? BUT SINCE I CAN’T OPPOSE THE ONLY SUPER POWER.. I BETTER GO WITH IT”. The same (I hope not) may happen with Greece... So U see.. SADDAM and BUSH are alike in many things but one thing.. Bush is acting and Saddam will be reacting.
@Roxrider_USA: You said Saddam should be removed because he is a *threat* to the world. Fine lets accept that. But so is BUSH. Bush is also a MAJOR threat to the world. We should also remove him. What is the difference between BUSH and SADDAM? both have missiles, weapons and chemical/biological weapons (I doubt that Saddam has nukes).
Look all I am trying to say is that BUSH should not go for the war but I know he will. It is a fact that Daddy Bush and Bush junior own Oil Mills which becomes a major need in the days of WAR, thus, profiting BUSH “not” America in anyway. Infact every extreme measure taken by Government of US aginst any coutry will be an open invitation for more attacks like 9/11.
Zee
LittleSpooky said on September 30, 2002 20:00:
Ya know... it’s not even worth the bandwidth to post on this topic anymore.
I have learned a lot from folks who have talked back and forth with me away from TDR. Hopefully, they’ve learned something from me as well about our different cultures and ideals. No one’s perfect, but it still irks me when someone refers me to be a typical American. Because, as most people know, there is no such thing. America is made up of MANY people from MANY lands. There is NOTHING typical about Americans.
Anyway... check my post called OT: Oh yeah....
DaminehGessle said on September 30, 2002 20:57:
@Roxrider_USA: Check this out:
We all know that Saddam is a threat. But to whom?? Why is the US concerned about neighbours’safetu all of a sudden?? How come they were not concerned back in the 80’s and even helped Saddam in gaining more and more power?
Is the US scared?? No. Does the US care about the neighbours? Hell no. Again selfishness comes to play.
Politics is a dirty business. They tell you USSR and US completed each other. But they didn’t. That’s why there is no such country as USSR. Cause they were more powerful than the US and ofcourse that shouldn’t be. So they fell apart. They tell you we are helping Israel and Palestine to get into peace. But they won’t. Cause they benefit from it. Why? Cause they do. They tell you Saddam is a threat to scare you and think oh yeah so let’s take him down.
It’s a weird world. Power blinds you. Killing and knocking others out isn’t a hard task. Anyone can do it. The big deal is how you can control that anger towards others. You are a true human being if you can guide that hatred towards love.
I am no politician. I am not an extremist. I don’t have a religion but I do believe in God and Humanity. I am not a mom, dad, teacher or a preacher. I am just a 22-year old student who has seen it ALL. I have been rich. I have been poor. I have been in Iran. I have been in Canada. I have been everywhere. I have gone up. I have come down. I have seen war. I haven’t seen peace yet and I am dying to see it one day. Through it all, I kept my eyes open. At one point last year when the US troops were bombing Afghanistan, I went to my doctor asking for help. Cause I knew what people were going through there even though I am living in one of the most peaceful cities on this planet at the moment and I know I’ll be safe. But does that mean I shouldn’t care?
I was away for 20 minutes answering a phone call. I lost where I was. I will come back with more.
Venga-Rox said on October 1, 2002 06:23:
The Daily Vengarox encourages all of you to read our guide on how to survive flame wars on forums and mailing lists:
http://www.dailyvengarox.cjb.net
Go to “Flammable Talk” and then click on “guide”.
Vengarox On!
prince_issac said on October 1, 2002 08:58:
@ Americans...
We know it is not your fault that you are naive and brainwashed. May us all take pity on the Americanos, for they were raised to believe in what their parents taught them, and raised to think the way society has taught them. They are sheep in a freeland. And they are free to do whatever they want. If they feel it is okay to bomb other countries and call it a peace effort, then so be it. For in the land of the free, world peace and world domination are the same in one.
We are not just attacking you the people, we are attacking your government... and your government isn’t listening because you are not speaking.
vaxjoe said on October 1, 2002 10:10:
i think prince isaak hit the right button- a bit harsh but thats his style :)
i ve been reading and reading and the more i read the more i hurt
lets all stop for a minute and think....think where we are wrong where our goverments are wrong....its so easy for one to go around telling others what to do and how wrong they are...
the hard thing is when one has to do that to his/her own self...
i think most of the ppl in here contributed and did the best u could....most but not all....im sorry to say that but as i accept everyones opinion i just cant believe and accept LITTLE SPOOKY
no way—its so obvious that this person has her eyes and ears closed....how can this person try to convince everybody else what she stands for when everybody -almost- has the opposite opinion??
thats called “being brainwashed” , and its the saddest thing for me to see and realise that there are actually young ppl that think like that...or should i say reproducing what others taught them to think.....
i somehow feel lucky -though theres a threat of being bombed- i feel lucky and proud being born and raised in europe where free spirit still exists and still living in the cradle of civilisation...
and im happy seeing my beloved european-brothers/sisters still holding on to the “free spirit and free thought”
im also glad to see that some others from other countries including ppl from usa start realising what the whole game is about...
thank u all - i love u all
as for those who r still telling the “same old tune”:
IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF AND MAKE A CHANGE :-)
*NIKOS*
DaminehGessle said on October 1, 2002 21:13:
@prince_issac: very nice. Don’t forget this fact though: I reach freedom by taking your freedom away from you. I gain wealth by taking your wealth away from you. United States of America is free because the government has taken away the freedom of millions and millions of people out there away from them. You think they are free, eh? But you have no idea. How nice do you think running around like a . working all day, driving around for $1 is? Americans have been brainwashed that that’s how they should live and that’s their freedom but they have no idea how much better life could be outside America. So they think they are free, but hell no.
@Vaxjoe: You can never create wisdom in people. You can never enlighten any person with no brain. I guess that answers it all.
DaminehGessle said on October 4, 2002 17:12:
I was just watching CNN while eating my breakfast. They had this guy talking, some expert in oil and economy. It was funny. This is what he said:
“After war with Iraq, there would be no more sanction on the country’s oil and gas. There would be more oil production and the price of oil would drop in the world. Other oil-producing countries must lower their price as well. Therefore, world economy will boost.”
Hehe... World economy you mean US economy eh?? See... I knew why they were going to war with Iraq. It was ALL planned out from the beginning. The fooled you big time.
Roxrider_USA said on October 6, 2002 03:45:
Hi!
On Friday (10/04/02), the US government convinced the chief weapons inspector, Mr. Blix, to wait for a tougher UN resolution that allows the use of force against Mr. Husseim if he fails to allow inspections to occur anywhere and everywhere in Iraq including Mr. Husseim’s presidential palaces that he so eagerly refuses to allow inspectors in.
Also, it is almost certain that the US Congress will give President Bush the authority necessary to act against Mr. Husseim. The voting will happen by next wednesday (10/09/02) and is expected to end up being a bi-partisan vote, meaning that republicans and democrats will put their differences aside and come together to give President Bush the authority he needs to act against Mr. Husseim.
Let’s see how it all plays out...
Take care friends!
Carlos E., New York!
Roxrider_USA said on October 6, 2002 05:07:
@Vaxjoe: Nope, it is not good news. Just trying to keep you guys informed.
Take care friend!
Carlos E., New York!
LittleSpooky said on October 6, 2002 09:00:
You know what, since prince_issac just lumped ALL Americans together, yet one more time, perhaps it is time that WE ALL start doing the same.
So, for those of you that are Muslim, I see you as a terrorist and hope you die.
For those that are English, you are uppity bastards who think you are better than everyone else.
For those that are Mexican, your lazy and you take jobs away from my countrymen because you can’t get a job in your own country.
For those of you that are Russian, you are a Communist and deserve to die as well.....
Is it just me, or are we ALL GETTING STUPID here???? I’m tired of the name calling, tired of people lumping everyone together.
Issac: Since you seem to forget, let me refresh your memory. Americans come from all over the world: Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Germany, Russia, Turkey, Isreal, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan... should I continue? See, not only are you insulting those that were born here by several generations, you’re insulting those that have been naturalised legally from other countries.
I deal with people from every walk of life in my job. I don’t see them as brain washed. I see them as people trying HARD to make a difference. You see, the man I voted for in the last election didn’t make it into office. If you’re not of one of the 2 political parties, it doesn’t matter. Ever since 9-11, Americans have been getting a kick in the ass. Hell, even before then.
And you know who REALLY is getting the ass-kicking? Not the government. Hell no. You cowards can’t do that right. You have to take out civilians. Not just on our own soil. You kill Americans because they are tourists in your own country, or foreign exchange students. You know what advice is given to Americans when they travel overseas (this was what I was told back in 1985 when I went to England to live with my dad while he was stationed at RAF Woodbridge).
We were told, basically, to NOT admit that we were American. When travelling in places like Isreal, keep to yourself. Try not to stand out like a tourist, it’s a death sentance. Tourists are the ones being killed, not members of the military or the government. You come to our country, we don’t kill you. We just try to rob you blind in the tourist industry, same as every other country’s tourist practices.
If you haven’t gotten the hint now, you never will. I don’t like being lumped in with the “lowest common denominator”. It’s like saying that the statements I made above are true. Well wake up and smell the sewer water, those statements are far from the truth in my eyes. I just wrote them because I want everyone to feel just like I do every time I read words like that.
Bet it pissed you off, didn’t it? GOOD. Maybe you will stop and think before you speak. Just because someone in your country is a screw-up doesn’t mean everyone in your country is.
People, you have got to STOP lumping all of us together in our respective categories. Or else, one day, all that I posted above about some of the different areas, WILL COME TRUE. And that’s a day I hope I will never see.
vaxjoe said on October 6, 2002 09:20:
do u think by writing long pages full of nonsense u will convince ppl of what u stand for and piss the ones that disagree with you?
i can do that too!!!
and among the ridiculous things i read, which is ok cause im used to that, (its almost entertaining if not boring reading the same things all over again and again) i read some lie as:
“ppl killing american citizens when they go to another country as tourists, students etc”
thats a complete lie...anyone that goes to a foreign country is in some kind of danger in a way cause in every country there is an amount of ppl that dont like foreiners
where i live there are many american ppl too and the only time there are in danger is when they get very drunk and crash the cars!!
...on the other hand my american friend told me that many of his “american friends” call “the native” any kind of names without reason such as “stupid dirty etc etc ”
THAT CAUSE I CAN WRITE LONG PAGES TOO !!
and i expect certain ppl that said they wont come writing in this page again to keep their word...cause coming back they manage to upset themselves and the others
thank u
vaxjoe said on October 6, 2002 09:38:
by the way what happened to the topic “the demands of global capitalism”?
Jud (moderator) said on October 6, 2002 09:53:
I guess some child complained because “buaaah, they are insulting me, I have done it too, but I have the right to do so, but not them! If you don´t delete that crap I go, buaah” ;)
Is this how you are going to face a war? ;)
LittleSpooky said on October 6, 2002 09:54:
Jude: Yup, and I’ve been trying to get back ever since. Living with my dad wasn’t the best time of my life, however, I did get to see some things that a normal “tourist” wouldn’t have seen. I want to go to London though and also visit Bath (is there such a place? Or is my memory playin trix on me?) I lived in Holbrook (a few k outside of Ipswitch), Felixstowe, Saxmundham and then moved back to the US. I know my spellin’s attrocious, it’s late here... feel free to correct.
zeeshan said on October 6, 2002 21:52:
Spoke: That is prime time crap you wrote there. I can’t stop laughing. No offence.. I don’t mean to piss you off but really that is some FUNNY STUFF!!!!!!
Where the hell is DaminehGessle!?? she would LOVE to read that!!!
Ciaoz
Zee
LittleSpooky said on October 7, 2002 01:12:
Zee: I’m trying to get people to see that this is the kind of stuff that has gotten the world to the point it’s at. Unfortunately, it’s like spitting in the wind: A useless and futile effort.
DaminehGessle said on October 7, 2002 03:42:
I am here Zee :)! The thing is that I read the articles every day and it’s so disappointing to read these stupid articles.
What the hell is wrong with this Spooky anyways? It’s such waste of time to read her/his articles. Do you have a brain dude?? I hope all of you stupid people die too :)! I hope every single stupid person dies. How is that? Now I feel better. Grow up.
Heh by the way, Vancouver came first again in the world and Melbourne second. The funny thing is that American cities didn’t even make it to Top20. So Spooky you can go kiss your country’s arse for making it to Top50 :)! Haha! If you were good enough economic wise, health wise and security wise, you could surely make it to Top20 or so. This means you suck :)!
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/04/world.cities/index.html
See... It’s so easy to fire the gun at each other with BS! That’s what you do unfortunately and that’s exactly what I did. Learn how to defend yourself and teach others lessons with good stuff not BS.
roxchurch said on October 7, 2002 07:00:
it’s a little bit out of topic .....but maybe not
so talking about tourists and foreigners in the USA
===============================
Nikolay V. Dzhonev, 21 student from Bulgaria with a summer visa allowing him to work at an Atlantic City-area convenience store was arrested Sunday(29.09) at the Atlantic City airport as he was about to board a flight to Myrtle Beach. He said he bought the Spirit Airlines ticket so he could visit a friend in South Carolina. He was arrested cos he carry in his bag THE WEAPONS–scissors and boxcutters !!!
The way the items were packed and the fact that Dzhonev had a one-way ticket bought over the INTERNET raised suspicions, Johnson said. He also arrived at 4:45 a.m. for the 8 a.m. flight and was the last to attempt to board.
According to the complaint, Dzhonev told officials he wanted to take the boxcutters back to Bulgaria as novelties.
Dzhonev was charged with attempting to board an aircraft with a concealed weapon, a felony.
They bring an federal accusation against him and the bail is 100 000$!!
==============================
federal accusation=10 years in prison!!!
ppl we are living in 2002,isn’t it??
i bought my tickets for NOTP via int too,does it means that i want to bomb somebody??
dear Good his parent’s earn 200 $ per month!!!
SirMikeAlot said on October 7, 2002 12:13:
i thought everyone knew that if you buy stuff over the net then that makes you a terrorists ;)
DaminehGessle said on October 7, 2002 15:58:
Heh... So how about all these criminals who run to Canada from the US :)!
zeeshan said on October 7, 2002 17:08:
@LittleSpooky: Oh yeah. Your convinving and thought-provoking comments like
“So, for those of you that are Muslim, I see you as a terrorist and hope you die.”
** and **
“For those that are English, you are uppity bastards who think you are better than everyone else.”
really effected my brain and now I must consult a pyschi doc to get out of this brain storm you have dragged me in. But when I read your post I thoght that NOW you know how others feel. NOW you know how an average Irani would feel being called as an EXTREMIST. Now you know how a guy walking down the streets (may I add RUINED) of Iraq would feel being called a terrorist only because he lives in Iraq. I am glad that Suadi Arabia has taken a very positive step by passing a law for incoming Americans only. Every American will now have go thru a finger-print check test. AAAAAHHHHHHHHH I can’t explain you how glad I was to read that. Rumours are that Pakistan has also been considering to pass such a law. GOOO PAK GOO!!
@DaminehGessle: Gr8 to see ya here.. I kinda missed ya when I read that article. Btw.. what is BS!???
@roxchurch: I heared that in Seattle there was a guy who rushed for his flight (he was running late) and he just shouted “my flight!! my plane!” and they sized the whole damn airport for 3 hours, cancelling all the flights. A 70 hear old woman now has to take her shoes off. People in Wheelchairs are not exception either.
Zee
Roxrider_USA said on October 7, 2002 19:28:
Hi!
—> Considering the best city list, why haven’t the developers of this list just placed the cities into two categories.
Cities in the Developed world and Cities in the Developing world?
I mean, that’s what that one long list implies. It’s completely unfair for those of us who live in developing countries. For me that list is completely biased. That’s really sad!!!!! Even in a city list the developing countries get trashed.
—> BS = Bull shit.
—> DaminehGessle, i think you should be careful when you say that many criminals going to Canada are coming from the US. That really have a conotation that can imply that everyone living here in the US are criminals, which would be going a little bit too far by your part.
I mean, express yourself but be careful with what you say and try not to generalize. Okay, friend? :-)!!
Carlos E., New York!
Lars-Erik_Olson (moderator) said on October 7, 2002 19:48:
I think we’ve seen FAR too much political debate published in our newspaper.... a newspaper that was NEVER intended to be a forum for such discussions.
From my perspective, discussions about politics and religion can ONLY lead to devisiveness within the TDR community of Roxette fans... and serves NO PURPOSE.... other than to piss people off, and thereby generate posts that contain what’s come to be called “flames”... or, in other words, posts where one reader does NOT show respect for another reader.
I’ve just read some of the posts in this thread... and see CLEARLY that people have not made an attempt to understand what others – people whose opinion differs from that of their own – are trying to say. Instead, they just mock them.
People seem to have their blinders on... (like a horse wears... so as to not get distracted) and it is a rare person indeed who is willing to step back and look at things from someone else’s perspective.
If you want to engage in debate and discussion about these kinds of topics... I suggest you do so on an e-newspaper or e-magazine site that covers current events. There ARE such sites with discussion boards, so I can see no reason for such discussions to be published here.
It’s one thing to allow Off-Topic threads like “Savage Garden this...” or “a-ha that”.... quite another to get into these topics that seem to be INTENDED from the very beginning to create controversy and discord amongst our readers.
The editors of The Daily Roxette are interested in fostering a community of fans who hold each other in high regard. We’re intersted in what unites us... and will leave it to OTHER sites to be concerned with these issues of global importance.
We have not done enough to discourage these types of threads... not done enough to keep SmallTalk “flame-free”. It’s time to get back to basics here.
Some of you REALLY seem to enjoy this punch, counterpunch... jab, counterjab kind of “debate”. If that’s you, if that’s YOUR idea of fun... writing posts where you criticize someone else... calling them dumb or stupid or worse... then you are NOT in the right place.
The time we have available to moderate SmallTalk is very limited. Thus, we try to make our policies clear, and hope for cooperation. There is ZERO tolerance for messages that contain flames. Feel free to write to me if you see that someone hasn’t read and complied with this.
SirMikeAlot said on September 27, 2002 17:24:
no truer words have been spoken... take care of yourself of the next few months vax