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Turkey in EU

15 replies

Jud said on December 19, 2004 21:55:

well I think the relationship has to be give-take-give, surely EU has lots to give to Turkey (guess why they r interested?) but what should Turkey give to the EU? Do we really want (and can?) live with a big country (as you said, almost same population as Germany) that, accept it or not, has nothing to do with the European culture? And can they live with that? Can 70 million citizens that will be able to move freely within Europe, citizens who have a total different approach of life, a total different way of living, culture, European countries might be more or less christian but we are all more or less having the same morals, just the example of women, and I won’t believe that “Turkey sees women as equal” because Ankara is NOT whole Turkey. Or take the religion influence in the law-decision-taking, cmon, they have a law thats based on their sacred book, and most people think religion is the thing that runs their lifes, we are way past that stage. HOW will this cultural crash or shock be? Can we live together to that extent, when nowadays we already have problems with the inmigrants and that’s nothing compared to the 70 (+ 20 in some years) million citizens?

Really, what will be next? Israel? Hong Kong for being an ex-GB colonie? Australia for being an “extention” of GB?

The EU is already sinking and stinking, wonder how it will be when we add culture confrontations, which somewhat already happen and we all come from the same christian roots. I don’t believe in God but admit that christianity DID make our culture as it is, just think about Xmas, for example. I don’t see this working, not at all. But of course, the pockets of a few are more important than the “proletarian” majority, or?

roxlad said on December 18, 2004 20:12:

Yes or no and why? Let’s see what happens but please no hard flaming :)

rox-kuryliw said on December 19, 2004 09:40:

IM all for it, more the better. more united. Plus i understand they will let cyprus become its own EU state. iv been to cyprus 5 times now, its the most beautiful place on earth , i love the greek gods ect stuff like that, the god of love lived on cyprus (where they isnt commerical towns) Id love to go to north cyprus but you have to go to it via aboat from turkey ! I wouldnt go to turkey myself just never wanted to i guess, plus everyone i know thats has been to turkey come back with dicky stomachs lol.

I really want ukraine to be in EU, as half my family are there it would make it safer for my dad to visit.

coyboyusa said on December 19, 2004 16:01:

in terms of civil rights, and other humanitarian eleemtns that the eu seems to value so much I agree , there are some balkan nations that for better or woser deserve membership about turkey, but if this in some way furthers democracy in the region I am all for it I guess

Jud (moderator) said on December 19, 2004 16:48:

I don’t really see what Turkey has to do with Europe, neither any other country that allows death penalty, woman be treated as 2nd class human beings - yes, yes, on the TV it’s very nice so it is in the cities, but what about the countryside? - and that is changing laws from day to night to fit in the EU frames.. but what counts is changing people’s minds, and this takes AGES. On a religious side, I think we have enough with catholic people wanting to push their morals down everybody’s throats, as to get another country which religion has nothing to do with ours, which is part of the government decisions and affects the economic and daily life so much.

On top of it, I don’t think EU has to get another partner which economy leaves much to be desired, that goes through ups and downs every year and depends so drastically about the party that’s in government. What will happen when next president isn’t as “cool” as Erdogan? This addition will only be another heavy stone that will just suck from the EU and give nothing back. See why CH doesn’t want to hear a word about the EU? ;)

So no, I don’t think Turkey should get in EU, at least not yet. I really don’t get why they bother about getting another partner when EU as it is nowadays has many things to get solved first.

ncurran said on December 19, 2004 17:42:

i’m still undecided...i think there are good and bad things that come with it. I want to see the EU become bigger, and welcome other countries....but on the other hand, turkey isnt even really European. Something like 15% of Turkeys area is in Europes borders. I have some of the same cultural worries as Judith. While i think that the EU could do a lot for Turkey and with EU regulations, Turkey would be forced to abandon some of its more anti-humanitarian laws, and also it might help solve the Cyprus problem, but at the same time i am a little worried about the power Turkey would have when it becomes a member. The population is already about the same as the biggest member state (Germany), and while other nations population and birth rates are falling....Turkeys population is projected to rise by another 20 million in the next 30-40 years. I find that a little bit scary, as they would have a huge representation in the EU institutions....and though I’m certainly not anti-muslim, i feel that an islamic country would be pushing for a more conservative approach than is currently accepted in most European countries.
Anyway, I think that the EU can help Turkey a lot, but at the same time i still need convincing that its membership wont do damage to the EU

sommartiderhejhej said on December 19, 2004 20:38:

I only agree to have Turkey in the EU if they are not violating the human rights anymore and if they
admit they have been violating these rights for several years.
At this moment they still deny (or least don’t admit) that they have done this, escpecially against the kurds (or however they are called in english).
So at this moment I say: NO

roxlad said on December 20, 2004 14:40:

I have to say you’re all very informed about it! That’s why I started this thread ’cos I don’t really know what’s happening in Turkey. All I can say is Istanbul is very European and I suppose Ankara is the same but Turkey is such a big country, how do they live in the small cities? About human rights, I have heard they’re having a new Penal Code that is going to stop old practices. For example if a wife is not devoted to her husband he can kill her and be out of prison like nothing... I’m sure young people and the future Turkey will be different minded but it takes time. With the new code the law will stop this but they can’t change mentality in just a few years. But again I don’t feel like judging before knowing for sure... I would love to hear what the Turkish think about the EU. Does anybody know if they have Christian churches over there and if they are comfortable with the minoreties?

roxlad said on December 20, 2004 14:43:

@Judith... do you know in Guyane they have the Euro and are part of the EU.... the borders are already broken ! Guyane is in South America and belongs to France. In Italy we have an independent state called San Marino. It is not part of Italy although it is completely surrounded by it. I know they are not part of the EU but the have the Euro.... that’s wierd!!!! :)

rox-kuryliw said on December 20, 2004 14:56:

As as far as im aware Turkey has to meet EU rules , which they been working on for ages and still have to. which i think is a good thing, and my brother went there this year and said its umm more commerial than england which made me laugh. As well as having poplulation very high they also need a good ecconmy to have a hight percent vote in eu like germany / fance / uk. cos they had the same prop with poland when they joined people worried (im going nexr year yay). alot of countries are falling over themselves to get in eu! ! ! . I think it is a worry that turkey doesnt have christmas and is a mostly a muslim country but its to be expected, im sure things will work out . Christmas will always be with me and my family , i think they will catch on like the rest of europe to be honest !

rox-kuryliw said on December 20, 2004 14:58:

hy im all for Australia being in EU, its scary how many people i know are moving to Australia !!! too warm there for me, i like a time of year which is cold a crisp !

ncurran said on December 20, 2004 15:40:

rox kuryliw “As well as having poplulation very high they also need a good ecconmy to have a hight percent vote in eu like germany / france / uk”

Thats not true I’m afraid....on an economic level yes they have less power, but seats in the European Parliament and other institutions are linked directly to the population of the country. With the country’s ongoing population growth, it wouldnt be long until they had the biggest representation in the parliament. I’m not that sure about the other institutions, as its been so long since i studied it. If i remember correctly each country has a number of representatives on the european commission. If i remember correctly, each of the countries have at least one member, and some of the bigger countries have 2....Turkey would certainly have 2. I would need to do some studying again to brush up my knowledge, but i can say for sure that they would have massive representation in the parliament at least

rox-kuryliw said on December 20, 2004 16:59:

ncurran you may be right , im not 100% i just remember poland having a similar problem cos of there large and still growing population and something about the amount of seats ! It does sound scary a muslim country having so much power in europe then ! as i dont wanna live a muslim country (please dont take me the wrong way, i just dont wanna live in one ! i couldnt !”)

Jud (moderator) said on December 21, 2004 13:03:

well it’s surely nothing against islamic countries, it is just that i don’t want to see MY country and MY culture changed, by whom ever.

And I am not sure about the number of seats in the parliament, I think the “fight” with Poland and the (new) EU-constitution is was exactly this, at least from a Spanish point of view. Until now the “funding” countries had more power than the others, regardless of the number of citizens in each country, could it be according to the Nizza agreement? So Spain had more votes than they would if it was counted by population, but now they wanted to change it to only taking into account population, to what Spain didn’t agree.. I *think* they have reached an agreement and have made the number of seats necessary to pass a law higher, so let’s say before it was 60% of the votes and 10 countries - now it is or should be 66% of the votes and 15 countries (don’t take these numbers for real cuz I just made it up).

I am not sure what would happen when Turkey would enter the EU and IF they would enter as a full-power member, i think this is what has to be discussed from now on. If I am not wrong, now the EU decided if they actually start to discuss about Turkey entering the EU. For these negotiations to take place, Turkey had to follow some “norms”.. they seem to have, BUT what is important is a) that they stick to it - and this is the biggest question mark in case there’s a change in the government and b) that the population living outside the big cities get to know about this AND accept these new rules, after all they want to change the society in 10 years and THAT takes longer.

Sure people over there are all for it, they only get benefits out of it, while us, the richer countries, only pay for that.

Yes, I know Andorra is also using the Euro but they aren’t a member of the EU, there are a couple more like this, Lienchestein and Monaco I think. But these aren’t real “countries” or .. whatever :P

Haha Oz belonging to Eu.. they’d first belong to US, they get along with them far better than with EU ;) BUT! Canada could join us too, they are half French after all ;)

coyboyusa said on December 21, 2004 23:18:

ahhh another ” democratic process” with alot of hitches heheheh :)

bakelse said on December 25, 2004 15:48:

I don´t think that Turkey should be a member of the EU. Why? First there´s the geografical fact: How many per cents of Turkey are Europe? But that´s only a minor matter. The most important:
We cannot accept a country in the EU- a communion that dedicates itsself to protect the human rights, to support each other in order to create better living conditions for everybody who lives in this communion- then we cannot accept a country that still protects the death penalty, that still disregards the human right, for example by oppressing women, even by killing them.
How can we accept a country that would obviously tear down one of the most important foundation pillars of the European Union? My opinion:
WE CANNOT ACCEPT THAT!