The Daily Roxette discussions forum has been closed. The forum is only available as a read-only archive.
Christian conserv. saying he'd gladly murder a gay
28 replies
Ferdan said on September 19, 2004 07:49:
http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_09_12_americablog_archive....
“This little son of a bitch said he would kill a gay man and then lie about it, saying the guy just died on his own, and his parishioners roared with approval. Then he praised God George Bush was a president willing to stand up to the gays by supporting the constitutional amendment.”
There’s a video in the link.
Well, this is becoming a really serious problem if a country as big as the US is becoming a nest of religious fanatics of this kind.
coyboyusa said on September 19, 2004 23:08:
this is what religion does to small minded people, but you know what as long as theres one idiot out there this willl always exist, perdonally as fuck up as hitler was one of the first things he did right was basically assasinate alot of crazy fringe religion leaders, people claim a world without religion would be lost, well if thats the case why is every war, even to some extent the one in iraq about religion?
and ferdan its not just america, alot of islamic countries endorse murder of gays, alot of blacks endorse anti gay behavior, especially in dancehall reggae music, there was an article here about the guy bounty killer who was in no doubts hey baby song, he has songs about burning gay men and killing them, its a sick would when people who ar minorities themselves endorse violence against other minorities
RoxHard said on September 20, 2004 02:01:
I heard somewhere (probably here!) that 3 in 10 men are gay. Not sure if it’s true, but - if it is - then it’s not really a moinority, is it? Heck, only 2 out of every 10 men have a functional penis!! lol! not me, tho! ;)
RoxHard said on September 20, 2004 02:11:
And about the original discussion - I seriously doubt if God cares if any of us are gay or not! As all these religious fanatics say God created EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING! There you go...
And I hate bible bashing. After all, that is a book written by a bunch of people - Not God!! As I just said, I doubt if God cares whether we’re gay or not.
OK... I had this whole thing thought up in my head, but i’ve lost my train of thought (hangover, you see) so I’m afraid I’ll have to cut it short.
I apologise folks, I know how you all love to read my rambellings ;-)
Jud (moderator) said on September 20, 2004 05:52:
it’s really frightening the power the different religions have on some countries, I think the islamic religion is the worse, but some protestantic/evangelic and catholic are the same fanatic. Not to talk about sects... In Spain now that we have the discussion about gay marriage going on.. you cannot imagine what we have had to read/hear from the mouth of priests/bishops.. HOW can people bear so much hate inside?
It also shows the level of the people.. you cannot expect a lot of somebody who turns his fear to something “different” (black, gay etc) into hate and violence. Then you have the ones who aren’t that dumb (politicians, church leaders) above them who take the chance to use them for their purposes. Once they showed a report on TV about an evangelic church that believed black were under them and didn’t allow them to their church (building)... they showed a guy who had some kind of good position in a company, family and all, it was incredible to see him speak those words full of hate towards black. It is hard to believe your eyes/ears sometimes..
Sometimes it feels we are still in some kind of crusade, christian against islam, as in centuries ago, just that before the “politicians” (kings etc) went to fight themselves and they didn’t have such lethal weapons.. now the politicians stay home (unfortunately) and with a button a whole city can be gone.
Majdy said on September 20, 2004 09:51:
I used to blame religion in every bad thing that happen in the world.
But I have met SO many religious people (come from different religion), and they are nice people. They go to church every sunday, they go to mosque, but they thinks that war is wrong, that kill people is wrong...
and I believe only “few” religious people that do bad things for the world. but since world is have most religious than atheist, so they BLAME the religious for create such war, terrorrist, etc...
but to me, whoever did the bad things. I will only see them as a PERSON who has done WRONG thing. not as a RELIGIOUS people..
all of us doing bad things sometimes, whether we believe in God or not... wheter we have religion or not.
I have tried my best not to blame the religious people anymore. because I probably be that one someday. but onething I believe, that if I ever be that one, I will respect human right and never agree to war and terrorism.
Ferdan said on September 20, 2004 10:20:
majdy, you´re talking about simple pawns, no one is blaming the bad things on them. It would be like blaming the soldiers for the war on Irak, they´re not the ones to blame.
coyboyusa said on September 20, 2004 23:53:
judith i have to agree fundametal islam is scarey and very backwards....scarey thing is its the fastest growing religion in the wrold...says alot about progress doesn’t it?
purplemedusa said on September 21, 2004 05:04:
Judith & Coyboy... good posts!! Laywer, I’m not certain whether you read Coyboy’s wrong or you’re just on some personal mission; if you are try & do it in a less-offensive manner!!
I have come to realize that most killings /war etc. were done in the name of rightousness... whether it’s has religious or patriotic origins; I sometmes want to smack people who thinks that they’re the ’right’ ones; that their perspective is the one everyone should follow. How different would the world be if ’right’ & ’wrong’ got replaced with actions that (doesn’t/) serve you and others around you? Would that not culture a society to debate rather than mercilessly condemn? UltimatelyI believe that we are fundamentally good natured...!
... just me 5 cents ...
Jud (moderator) said on September 21, 2004 05:59:
Lawyer, I am sure there are islamic countries where women can become president, but I am also sure there are very few. These are the few countries where islam is moderate, but unfortunately the countries where islam is conservative/ fanatic are a lot more. In any case, the “western” world doesn’t start and end in USA, there are many “christian” (to call them somehow) countries that have had women in the politics for ages. So what do you want to say exactly?
Jud (moderator) said on September 21, 2004 06:13:
I also find it damn hipocrite to be a believer, a priest.. go around telling that God created everything, that we have to love eachother, bla bla bla, and then only accept people of your own religion in your church, for example.
Why should evagelist and catholic hate eachother? Or jew and catholic/christian? Or islamic and any other religion? It can’t get more stupid.
So religion in big masses (and not the “personal” religion one would practise home or every sunday going to church but not belonging to any group or something, like my grandma for example, she prays every night but her steps aren’t dictated by anybody, she just needs those 15 minutes every night to pray for us and for my grandad that died some years ago) is just a big sect and a whole full of hate which in many ocasions turns into violence.
Roxer93 said on September 22, 2004 10:11:
Coyboy: Maybe you should get to know a few Muslims before you make judgement against them. You’ll find that basically, they’re just like you or I. Living their lives, minding their own business. It’s just people like yourself who make all Muslims sound like bad people. That type of ignorance isn’t called for, and much of what causes the troubles we have in the world today. I bet some of the best customers in your shop are Muslims, and you wouldn’t even realise it.
Back to the subject at hand. The Christian religion/bible says that homosexuality is a sin. It also says that God forgives those who are repentant for their sins. Therefore, I read that as: A person can commit homosexual acts, as long as they ask God for forgiveness afterwards. (Obviously, their repentance must be genuine, or God will see right through it.) For the record, I personally have nothing against homosexuality.
The first of God’s Ten Commandments is “Thou shalt not kill.” The aforementioned priest, in my opinion, should be expelled from his church. If nothing else he is misleading his congregation.
That’s my two cents’ worth!!!
Jud (moderator) said on September 22, 2004 15:09:
Ah yes! The so called “God forgives those who are repentant for their sins”
This way, anybody commiting a crime will be forgiven as soon as he feels sorry about what he/she did.. This way we have all those child molesters hidding behind the closters/bays/church walls; they can abuse as many kids as they feel like, they only need to pray and feel sorry and ask for forgiveness afterwards and let’s go on as if nothing happened. That’s what I call.. way to go!
ncurran said on September 22, 2004 16:01:
I actually have no problem with religion in itself. I myself am not religious, although i did grow up in a very strict baptist church. As an adult, I dont believe the things they taught me.
Religion is a problem only if at you look at it from a certain perspective. If when you think about religion as just islam, christianity, baptist, catholic, jew, etc etc....then you are going to have problems with it because then you are assuming that everyone within those groups have the same beliefs. And indeed if you take the bible as an example, if you read it word for word and try to follow it word for word, then there are going to be problems...if you really believe that animals should be sacrificed, a raped woman can be bought by her rapist for 50 shekels (yes it does teach that), and homosexuality is an abomination....i could go on and on.
But I actually look at religion in a different way, as i do life in general, i think its a much more personal thing. How many christians do you know who actually follow all of the teachings listed above? The fact is that most believe in the general concept of their God, and then act with their own conscience to decide how they live their life around that. The vast majority of roman catholics dont follow the popes teachings of contraception for example, and that doesnt make them any less catholic.
My point is, I refuse to stereotype followers of one religion into one pile and assume they are all the same. I dont believe that politics and religion should mix, and yes there are many undemocratic islamic countries around the world, but lets remember countries like N.Korea, China, Cuba, Russia which are not true democracies either, and that has nothing to do with religion.
My whole philosophy on life is that i will accept each person individually, and I respect everyones right to believe in their god. However, in return i also expect the same courtesy. They should respect how i choose to live my life, and I dont want their beliefs shoved down my throat. Sadly, some people don’t give other people that courtesy, but that is INDIVIDUALS from all religions and sometimes even non-religious groups. I would never judge every follower of that belief system because of the actions of individuals within that group.
I have a very good muslim friend back home, who has never judged me, i also have christian friends who are the same.....most of my friends are not religious, but really it isnt important, its only important that people respect each other.
OK, ive said my piece. i’ll shut up now.
Roxer93 said on September 23, 2004 02:18:
@Judith: Maybe I should have worded that differently. I certainly didn’t imply that it’s ok for a criminal to become a repeat offender and blame it on what the bible says, or their interpretation thereof.
I also never said I was actually heavily religious. I’m just going by what I’ve heard from other Christians, and maybe because I only go to church once in a blue moon, I don’t have the full story, and I acknowldge that. However, my opinions of the preist and of Coyboy still stand.
P.S. I also don’t intend anything I say to be offensive to anyone.
coyboyusa said on September 23, 2004 14:31:
just out of curiosity lawyer why is it every time i defend my country backed up by substaniated facts you always go on the attack. The simple fact is in the past 15 yrs there has been a riotous rise in violence comitted by people who identify themselves as radical muslims. The want the whole world to revert back to 14th centery living standards yet the use ak47, the internet and blow up places children and women. I don’t truly understand how u can defend anything that they do.. I know my country isn’t a saintly one, I don’t necessairly agree with our ties to israel, some of the reasons for going into iraq, but as winston churchill once said...and i am paraphrasing, democray may not be the best form of government but it surely isnt’ the worst. How u can rile against people who endorse freedom of speech, religion, sanctity and saftey is beyond me. I really dont think u truly fathom what a world uncer radical islam would eb like heck u and I would probably have been beheaded by now
and another thing that truly perturbs me is religious zealouts necessity to constantly spew verses from holy books. If your god had a will and a want and a guiding divinty for how human kind should evolve I surely doubt allowing men to brainwash their kids into becoming human bombs was part of his master plan. A woman can become persident in america, we just have yet to have a strong enough woman to become one, democracy liek evolution takes time, america is one of the younget countries on the planet and our population is 62% of what they call the baby boomer generation, they r set in their ways and until they subside unfortunately some things wont change. ANd u claim that god doesn’t endorse anything that doesn’t end in procration, yet jesus moses and mohammed saught the company of whores outcasts moniorites etcetra. Just becuase i don’t have the desire to breed doesn’t make me any less of a valid form of human life lawyer thats just as narrominded as u claim I am.
StillFar said on September 23, 2004 15:52:
I see babies and women killed by non-Muslims...the reasons might be different, but are they better? I see young and mostly poor/uneducated people of the western world getting brainwashed to serve the army and do the dirty work for some other people who get rich by them getting killed. I see people starving on the street, having no money for medical support, a roof and clothes while the country they live in is supposed to be super-rich. I see freedom of speech which is as hypocrite as the super democracy people are trying to spread, people speak their mind and get prosecuted for it..
Which form of life is better Coy, do you know?
Jud (moderator) said on September 23, 2004 16:58:
I know christian and islam religions are based on the same (another reason to find it stupid to fight over the same god...), it is the use you make of the “sacret scriptures” what makes a country/religion more conservative or modern or moderate.
Somewhere it is written that it is allowed to sell slaves, well, it is up to us / you to decide if you want to do it or not. If it is written that homosexuality has to be condemned, it is up to us/you to actually condemn it or not, THAT is the difference. Count how many islamic countries forbid homosexuality (with prison or even with death) and how many christian have already made steps to allow gay marriages/adoption etc. Make numbers and you will see what I mean.
It is a fact that most countries where religion is still a base for politics/ running the country are far behind others that left religion (or let’s say influence from “missioners of God”) aside for taking political decisions.
I work at a bank - bank analysm and rating. Why do you think that most banks located in islamic countries get a lower rating than the ones located in let’s say christian/ occidental countries? The way to analise a bank has nothing to do with religion (even though the policies of banks in islamic countries ARE based in the islam) but with the profit, assets, equity among other things. This is just an example. You can even feel the difference between catholic /christian countries where religion /church has a great influence in the politics.
It is not the religion itself, it is the way the religion is used and the way the scriptures are used for the daily living.
ncurran said on September 23, 2004 17:07:
judith, i think u hit the nail on the head with your comment...i agree one hundred percent....the religion is not the problem, it is when the religion is used politically. The basis of religion is if i am not mistaken, free will, therefore it is wrong to have religious laws in society because then you are imposing religious laws on them, where everyone should have the choice to follow their own religion and principles.
And the gay thing, yes it is disgraceful the way thay gay people are treated in some countries. But even George bush is guilty of this to a lesser degree, proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, because it threatens the sanctity of marriage. Yet again his personal religion interfering with his politics....lets not he also asked “God’s” advice before invading iraq, and apparently God told him to go ahead with the war.
purplemedusa said on September 23, 2004 17:14:
I am highly offended by certain users’ inability to converse in a friendly manner; this saddens me that, once again, these people choose to alienate themselves form their neighbors by their stubbornness to believe that there are more ’truths’ apart from there own!
It’s my wish to see this thread archived. Hopefully one day we’ll be able to discuss this matter in a more mature manner!!
Jud (moderator) said on September 23, 2004 22:34:
again, the world doesn’t end in US.
And what I said is exactly that, one can choose politically to follow the bible or whatever other “sacred laws” or not, a country that chooses not to is- I think - far more open/modern than another that doesn’t. A country is formed by people who either don’t believe in god or believe in God but belong to different churches/streams. I refuse to have a guy dressed in white and gold decide if I can marry my girlfriend or not or if condom can be used or if abortion is good or is bad. Among other things.
coyboyusa said on September 23, 2004 23:07:
north korea is peaceful? the leader of the country has said that once he developes the technology he does not deny that he would sell radioactive materials on the open market this is his own words how can you describe that as peaqceful? ANd i still had issues understanding your post lawyer, 14 yrs of what exactly?
and stillfar noone ever claimed that any one form of government is the best. Yeah its true that alot of impoversihed peoepl joint he military, but in return they are compensated, being that alot of them are minorities, well you aware of american history and the offset of socio-econimice balances here in the states, but its liek that EVRYWHERE, the only option to that is liek countries liek greece where there is mandatory millitary enrollment.
I think lawyler misinterprets judith and mines approch to what religion represents. If you go back through history religion , for all its philathropic and humanitarian kudos, was still designed as a governing body, look at the papl structure, look at the structure ogf many organized religons around the world follow their hisroty and you’ll find that through a signigficant period of time in the regions in which they evolved they were the govenment. So, to be a radical claiming you are against facist regiems orr democratic fronts is rather hypocritical if the reilgion you claim supports you effeort is infact itself a blueprint of governing is pretty hypocritical. I dont think any religion has the right to claim dominance in their view of a god, his or her righteousness or otherwise, unless this supposeed god comes down and syas to the world the jew are right the muslims are right the christians are right, then the rest of the nuts should just simply shut up, stop doctrinating our live and trying to mainpulate politics and enact sociological repression. ANd lawyer, there have been many documented cases of homosexuality existing in nature
ok i re read lawyrer post lol and i grasped it lol i needed coffe and to stop watching the kitrens in my backyard :) LAywer you can try to demonize americans all you want, but we are not imperialists, we leard long ago from out dealing with the british that imperialism also does not work. Do you deny that saddam huseein murders over 300,000 mulims sunnis kurds sheits etc? Do you deny the enthich murders in Yougoslavia by muslims there or the genocide happning in sudan at this moment. You can’t praise allah and islam and act like the brutality thats being carried out in the name of your religion isnt happening. I for one am not running around saying i will murder anyone who doesnt’ follow wicca or supports a womans choice to have an abortion of hold a job or be educated. ... but then again I am a bit more enlightened arent i :)
Roxer93 said on September 24, 2004 02:09:
I don’t think anyone is more “enlightened” than anyone else. I think it all comes down to the way we were brought up, what we learned from our elders, our surrounings, etc.
The fact remains that we all live on the same planet, and unless we can all try to get along, we will inevitably destroy ourselves.
@purplemedusa: I hope that I am not one of the “certain” members who are offending you. I apologise if I am. I do not, and will not ever intend to offend anyone through anything I write in this forum. I agree that every time a topic like this starts, it always ends in a heated argument. I also agree it might be a good idea to put a lovely shade of grey over this topic.
LittleSpooky said on September 24, 2004 03:55:
Just cuz I want to zing a few people here:
Oldest religion? Paganisim / Wiccan and others of the kind. From these is where “organized” religion springs. Most basic Wiccan Rede: “And tho it harm none, do what you will.” It’s echoed across most religions. Yet, the Wiccan religion is the most peaceful. Believe it or not, there are Wiccan soldiers. Know what they do? MEDICS.
coyboyusa said on September 24, 2004 11:38:
yeah i know spooky there r even wicca organizations inside the us millitary which i think is great...catholics were brutal to the wiccan elements in europe throughout history yet the adopted so many of their rituals
LittleSpooky said on September 19, 2004 08:03:
In a society such as this, where everything seems to go wrong at every turn, when one stands up and is a “respected” religious leader (and I use that phrase LOOSELY, because I have no respect for that sonofabitch) and preaches, people are SO desperate, they listen.
To paraphrase a line from “American President” (Michael Douglas, Annette Benning, Martin Sheen, Michael J. Fox):
“People don’t drink the sand because they’re thirsty, they drink the sand because they don’t know the difference.”
This is the direction that it’s going. People will listen to just about ANYONE who stands up and makes a ton of racket. People feel that the world is going to hell and that Gay Marriage is one of the Top 5 things sending it that way. Right or wrong, this is how people feel. This is one of those subjects you will never get people to agree upon and you will have those like this dick and the Resident Prick in Office who will do their damndest to butt into everyone’s personal life.