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Brazil vs Argentina.. Whos best in footbal/soccer?
43 replies
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 11, 2004 05:26:
I’m just trying to make a point here... Since both countries started to play soccer, we’ve been considered to be rivals! And as everyone knows, Brazil and Argentina is Brazil and Argentina!! Just leave here what you think. And in a scale of 1 - 10, rank both national teams. I hope its a good and healthy competition.. :) For the mean time i’ll leave what i think..
Brazil 10
Argentina 7
Roxrider_USA said on July 11, 2004 18:29:
Here it is:
Brazil 10
Argentina 8
Later!
Carlos E., New York.
harriej said on July 11, 2004 20:50:
Brazil 8
Argentina 8
So, equal strength.
Does that imposter Rivaldo still play? (pretending to be hit in the face, whilst only a ball was played back at him against Turkey 2 years ago).
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 12, 2004 03:11:
@harriej Rivaldo is not playing at all right now... he’s not signed with any club and to be honest i have no idea if he will return to the soccer field... It doesnt really matter anway... He’s no good for Brazil anymore even though he’s helped a lot through out his career. How come u say that both Brazil and Argentina are equal? That makes no sense! Lets put the facts on the table, Brazil has won 5 world cups, Argetina is not even close, they’ve won only 2!! Brazil is the only national team that has stayed about 4 yrs #1 on the national rank!! Argentina is not as constant as Brazil, a proof of that is the 2002 world cup. They were kicked out easily!!! They never made it to the quater finals. Brazil has won 2 of the last 3 world cups; won in 94, came second in 98, and once again won in 02! Brazil is the only national team in the world that has never stayed out of a World Cup!! I could go on forever but there really is not poing for me to keep on going any further! I’m not judging you opinion, i’m just putting the facts on the table like i said before!! ;)! See you later
Roxrider_USA said on July 12, 2004 13:48:
@PureBrazilianRJ: That is enough to convince me.
A single match win is not an approppriate basis for comparison whereas a constant record of wins, titles prestige and the admiration of millions of fans wherever on Earth the team goes to. That’s how a fair and an approppriate judgement should be reached.
Later!
Carlos E., New York.
harriej said on July 12, 2004 18:31:
EDIT:
Brazil 9
Argentina 8
My previous judgement was merely based on the fact that the last time, Brazil had a very though time qualifying (as nr. 4 or 5), whilst Argentina was very easy qualifying. On the other hand is Brazil stronger in the tournaments.
So all in all there is not much difference in strength.
A team is as strong as it’s latest match, history doesn’t count.
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 12, 2004 19:29:
@harriej It’s true what you say that history doesnt count, however, history and Brazil always work together and it always repeat it self!! Proof of which is that Brazil is once again since the World Cup 02 ranked #1 on the charts! And how long has it been? 2 yrs! Plz dont get me wrong, i’m not trying to make the Argentine look small, i’m just saying what is true, how long has it been since Argentina was #1 on the charts!! Nevertheless, whenever Brazil and Argentina play each other, the sky opens for the angels to watch such amazing piece of football/soccer. In my opinion Brazil and Argentina are the biggest rivals in soccer history.
StillFar said on July 13, 2004 14:08:
yeah, I’m sure the angels are desperate to watch the matches...
Roxrider_USA said on July 13, 2004 17:13:
They sure are.... After all, it’s a clash of titans!
Carlos E., New York.
Roxrider_USA said on July 13, 2004 17:49:
@Stillfar: Tell me another match that is always so controversial, well played, played and compatitive in all inches of the field and that get so much international attention.
Did you know that the only World Cup qualifying match up that is shown on Pay Per View is
Brazil x Argentina. I haven’t seen advertisements for any other individual World Cup qualifying matches on Pay Per View. Only for whole tournaments or single matches for the Euro Cup.
Carlos E., New York.
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 13, 2004 17:52:
Its funny how individuals all around the world seem to envy Brazilian and South American football so much that they end up hating! lol but what can we do? we’re just lucky to be from South America and me specially Brazilian! ;) Envy on, envy on....
StillFar said on July 13, 2004 18:22:
I don’t envy the Brazilian team. I like them and I enjoy watching them. Are they the most amazing team ever, I don’t know. Yeah, they have 5 TC titles, they won the last WC, but then again couldn’t have gone the other way, so instead of having this lead of 2 WC titles, it would have been a tie of 4 each. In any case, it’s a great and very constant soccer nation, which always brings heart and passion to the field...Soccer wouldn’t be the same without Brazil!
btw, I was just teasing you, you started 5 topics about soccer (more or less about brazilian soccer) and it just felt like you needed some contradiction...:D
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 13, 2004 18:29:
@StillFar
:) I’m not trying to say that Brazil is the best or anything.. i’m just trying to make a point, cause man i know a lot of people that envy Brazil so much that they end up hating!! Its amazing lol! And i only created this Discussion to try to see what people think about Brazilian soccer and Argentine soccer since they’re such big rivals!! You’re a great opponent to discuss with lolz!! keep it up! See you around bro!
Btw, i didnt start 5 topics, only 3 :)
harriej said on July 14, 2004 18:28:
In one way or another, it always seems to me that Brazil gets more succes than it deserves.
I still can remember how they defeat The Netherlands with a offside-goal to win the tournament later on in 1994.
If Brazil plays, usually I am supporting the opponent. Rivaldo did not really help enjoying them.
ImissmybabY said on July 14, 2004 20:43:
Hi! Im from argentina and I really enjoy watching brazil playing, but we have to remember that brazil always supported FIFA’s statements and avelange’s choices and brazil always recieves favors from its stands for FIFA. Maradona made his own cruzade against FIFA and we’ve been punished for that many years.
My point is that Brazil is a great and excellent team and its power is enhanced by the choices that judges make.
Nowadays Brazil has better footballers than we do.
James_Earp said on July 15, 2004 14:17:
this is a easy question. Brazil is better (with the right manager). both teams have many big stars who think they are something special, and you have to make them function as a team. Scolari was succesfull in brazil, but argentina has not been succesfull since the days with the cheater (sorry all argentinians but he is) Maradona.
just look at the latets world cup, my homecountry Sweden won the group and played in the playoffs but not argentina.
But i do think that if argentina will get a coach like scolari which can controle all the stars they will get more succesfull.
Brazil: 9
Argentina: 7
Ferdan said on July 15, 2004 15:28:
ah, saying “The cheater” sounds like whining...
you say it like if no other player in the world hadnt tried to cheat at least once, every single one of the greatest players tried to cheat at least once.
Just ’cos maradona was the greatest and did it against the english doesn’t mean he’s more of a cheater than any other player.
Anyway, he gave you the chance to see the best goal in the world cup history in that same match, I know you´re greetful for that (unless you don’t like football of course)
Anyway, Argentina is still ranked in the middle of the top ten and you don’t call that succesful?
StillFar said on July 15, 2004 15:31:
shouldn’t the topic be Paraguay vs Brazil...Whos best in footbal/soccer...:D
Roxlander said on July 15, 2004 22:06:
Brazil has been the best through all these years. Argentina is a great team too, but they haven’t reach the Brazilian level. Almost all players in Brazil are stars in their clubs too, and all other countries feel afraid to face Brazil.
But nowadays distances in football are getting shorter, that’s why teams like Paraguay wins against Brazil, and Greece wins the Euro Cup.
Brazil 10
Argentina 9
James_Earp said on July 17, 2004 09:30:
ofcourse other people has cheated, swedish players as well, but we often don’t see them as national heros. we look down at them and do not talk about them as good examples to our children.
i don´t understand why they are ranked in the top ten. have they gone longer than to quarterfinal in a worldcup the last ten years????
Ferdan said on July 17, 2004 09:51:
World cups aren´t the only way to measure the performance of a team. Fifa also counts the Euro cup, la copa América, and pre-world cup qualifications and some more.
For example, Argentina had been unbeaten for over 40 matches (or something like that) before the 2002 world cup, before that world cup Argentina was ranked 3rd, then it descended to 5th or 7.
Argentina reached quarter finals in 1998, lost to Holland.
Ferdan said on July 17, 2004 10:20:
And Maradona is the BEST example to tell to the kids.
He’s the best example for the GOOD and he is the example for the BAD, all in one person.
He’s done and he’s got everything of what people shouldn’t do and also everything of whatpeople should try to do.
He’s the best example to show your kids how drugs ruin your life, he’s the best example to show your kids how money and fame isn’t everything. He’s the best example to show your kids that if they try hard, they can make their dreams come true.
He’s the best example of fatherly love, his daughters are his life. He´s the best example to show that you have to avoid people that are near you because of what you’ve got instead of who you’re, otherwise they´ll ruin your life.
He’s an example to show that games are to be played because they’re fun, he loves the sport for the sake of playing. He’s an example to show that people shouldn’t forget their roots, he never ever got mad at his fans (unless they made trouble, etc.) he hardly rejected to give an autograph or hugs or kisses, you ask Maradona for a hug and he´ll give you one... he´s not like pussy “stars” like beckham or Crespo, and that’s one of the things why Maradona is one of the most loved players all around the world.
And he’s a national idol because he´s a great person, a person that made a hundreds of mistakes, but still with a great heart.
Santi said on July 17, 2004 18:47:
I think that this depends a lot on the tournament they’re playing!
For example in Copa America Argentina has always been much better:
Argentina x Brasil
1916
1-1
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1917
4-2
Montevideo (URU)
1919
1-3
Rio de Janeiro (BRA)
1920
2-0
Viña del Mar (ARG)
1921
1-0
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1922
0-2
Rio de Janeiro (BRA)
1923
2-1
Montevideo (URU)
1925
2-2
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1925
4-1
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1937
1-0
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1937
2-0
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1942
2-1
Montevideo (URU)
1945
3-1
Santiago (CHI)
1946
2-0
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1956
0-1
Montevideo (URU)
1957
3-0
Lima (PER)
1959
1-1
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1959
4-1
Guayaquil (ECU)
1963
3-0
La Paz (BOL)
1975
0 - 1
Rosario (ARG)
1975
1-2
Belo Horizonte (BRA)
1979
1-2
Rio de Janeiro (BRA)
1979
2-2
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1983
0-0
Rio de Janeiro (BRA)
1983
1-0
Buenos Aires (ARG)
1989
0-2
Rio de Janeiro (BRA)
1991
3-2
Santiago (CHI)
1993
1-1
Guayaquil (ECU)
1995
2-2
Rivera (ARG)
1999
1-2
Ciudad del Este(PAR)
James_Earp said on July 18, 2004 13:13:
ok that was a long and good list but that about fatherly love, if i heard right he has a son who just been traded to blackburn which he only has met just once.......
like i sad longer than quarterfinal........and I mean if they should go after the qualifications to the world cup and other big events team like for example sweden should be in the top ten. sweden has only lost on qualification game since 1998-99 something
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 21, 2004 04:33:
This is great, people are really saying what they think in this topic!! By the way, its very likely that the Copa America final will be Brazil vs Argentina!!! Its going to be a great game!! But first Brazil has to get by Uruguai!!!! Hopefuly Brazil will be the Champion of the Copa America!!!
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 22, 2004 03:42:
@ Ferdan
I could agree with u that Maradona was one of the best that has walked on earth, however, if u say that he was the best u’re mistaken! One super gol in a world cup isnt enough to make him the best!! Don’t forget Pele my friend! Now he is the king of football!!! But i wont argue because Maradona was and still is the prince after Pele!! Que viva Argentina y Brasil Ferdan... ;)
sommartider said on July 22, 2004 04:12:
Well, finally, the end of this topic...
Copa America final match:
Argentina Vs. Brazil
Next sunday...
Ferdan said on July 22, 2004 04:55:
Pele was the king, Maradona is god :)
And Maradona is more than one goal, it surprises me that you don´t know anything about his career.
Anyway, Maradona and Pele are the greatest ever, but both had very different styles... Pele played more forward than Maradona, maradona played more as organizer.
Also you got to remember Pele’s era was very different, he was one of the first (or the first) “special” players, no doubt.
But the Cups he won with Brazil, could have been won without him, Brazil was a great team with many great players.
In Argentina ’86 Maradona was alone, he alone won that world cup, he moved the “strings” of the team.
Another thing is that Pelé never played in europe against the best of his time, maradona did. Playing with Napoli, wich was a really poor team with not big history, and he changed that (Helping Napoli to win their first italian league title (2 times) also being the best scorer, even though he wasn’t a striker!, and UEFA cup also for the first time in history.
Pele only played in Brazil and in USA (ha!)
That´s why both players can´t be compared, sadly...
so both were the greatest.
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 22, 2004 17:15:
@Ferdan
Yea bro, Pele is the king, and how come u say that Maradona is God? Didnt u say on another topic that u didnt believe in God? What’s up with that? True that they both played in different times but Pele is just Pele man... And i also think it was good that Pele only played in Brasil and then in the USA. Pele is not that kind of player to be shared with others!! He’s unique! And yea Maradona was the responsible for Argentina’s World Cup Championship in ’86. Pele and Maradona are for sure the two greatest players to walk on this earth but, Pele was more of a player and more of a person than Maradona even though he, Maradona had the best left leg in football history!
Roxrider_USA said on July 22, 2004 18:21:
Brazil’s soccer history in the last 2 years.
2002 world cup winners.
Quater-final exit in the Confederation Cup with a mixed squad.
Under 21 world champions.
Under 17 world champions.
Runner-up with the olympic team (under 23) in the Copa Oro final against México.
1st place in the 2006 WC qualifiers.
And now going to play the COpa América final with a luxury team B against Argentina.
As you can see in all levels, with mixed teams, main squads or B squads, Brazil always leaves its mark.
Take care!
Carlos E., New York.
Ferdan said on July 22, 2004 19:51:
yeh, i don´t believe in the christian god... well not any god at all, except maradona ;)
I say again, both can´t be compared... but Maradona was more complete in the sense of teamplay, maradona had more chanllenges in his career (or at least more varied), etc.
Both had tremendous quality, but both played in different positions and different eras that makes it hard to compare.
And in the FIFA survey Maradona was chosen the best one by the people of the world (Including the English), but the FIFA executives decided to give the honour to Pelé.
And about Pele being a better person than maradona, that is too relative... I could say that Pele is a capitalist pig (the Simpsons would be with me on this ;) ), he made his sexual debut with a boy, he asked xuxa to lose her virginity to another guy because he didn´t like virgins... those things would be considered really bad by different people... so there isn´t a thing as “better person”.
Roxrider_USA said on July 24, 2004 13:19:
Comparision is irrelevant.
The eras were different.
The only certain facts are that tehy both were genius soccer players and that Pelé is the greatest or second greatest goal scorer in history, which until roday is debatable in either way. The fact is that he scored 1279 gols.
Carlos E., New York.
Roxrider_USA said on July 26, 2004 01:05:
Now we can add this to Santi’s list:
ARG X BRA; Lima, Peru.
2 X 2
(2) X (4) —-> penalty shoot out.
Later!
Carlos E., New York.
PureBrazilianRJ said on July 26, 2004 04:32:
Ole ola o Brasil veio com furia e fez a Argentina chorar ieee eu quero ve vc chorar, abaixar a cabeça eh respeitar, agitar o mundo vamos celebrar o Brasil eh força bruta ninguem vai aguentar... A curtiçao do futebol ta cada vez melhor a massa se reune em um motivo soh... dançar a dança do futebol e batucada e fazer que eles chorem como bebes de madrugada.... Ole ola o Brasil veio com furia e fez a Argentina chorar ieee eu quero ve vc chorar, abaixar a cabeça eh respeitar, agitar o mundo vamos celebrar o Brasil eh força bruta ninguem vai aguentar...
Ferdan said on July 11, 2004 06:24:
???
Brazil won more world cups, there is not much more to discuss here.