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What's ur religion?
103 replies
gsobarzo said on March 2, 2003 00:52:
Littlespooky....
What’s up man? (girl :)) Why are you angry with me? i didn’t say in any time that YOU were defending mormons... I was just trying to be clear with anyone unfamiliarized with the LDS... I’m glad that you know that christian and mormons are different. Hope you’ll someday know christian better and know at least why we pay.
LittleSpooky said on February 24, 2003 04:33:
I am going through a crisis of the faith, so... none presently
Jud (moderator) said on February 24, 2003 08:41:
I was born Catholic (I am from Spain) but I don’t really believe in God, at least not in any of the Gods that the religions describe :) I believe in Jesus though, as a person who was GOOD, but I also believe there are “modern Jesus” - a person I really admire is Teresa of Calcuta. I also think that there is no need to believe in any God to do Good.
Good that in Spain we don’t have to pay for belonging to a religion :! I was :O when I got to know that in some countries (I am talking of Austria cuz I live here) you have to pay a % of your salary... what the hell!!
powerpoplarry said on February 24, 2003 10:06:
Well, I was born Jewish, which is kind of more of a nationality than a religion, but I don’t observe, too restrictive. I prefer freeedom of thought, free of all guilt. I respect my heritage though.
rox-kuryliw said on February 24, 2003 11:35:
my religion, is abit of everything, just be on safe side. my opinion they is no wrong no right then.
Alienista said on February 24, 2003 18:27:
I was born Orthodox, but I have My own religion - All the religions are invented by the Author!
LittleSpooky said on February 24, 2003 23:07:
Judith: The LDS Church requires its members to pay a 10% tithing.
When you leave them, you get a 10% pay increase, Sundays off, and you can pick your own underwear ;o)
They wear “Temple Garments” (aka Rocky Mountain Surfer Suits). Don’t ask me why they do... but I prefer boxers, thanks.
Jud (moderator) said on February 24, 2003 23:52:
:O
10%!!!!
Well my gf’s cousin is a Jehovah witness and even if she earns a lot more than Connie and pays less for a rent (has less expenses) she always is asking her parents - who live in France - for money (and I am not talking of 10 Euro a month)
:O
In Spain hihi, when you have to fill in the taxes forms, if you have to pay taxes, you can write a cross in a box if you wish to donate a 0.5% (i think) of the taxes you gotta pay to the Church or to Non-profit associations. If you don’t mark any of the boxes, the money goes to the state for Social stuff. 0,5% of the taxes and only if you want to! :P
Needless to say, I wouldn’t pay a cent, they have enough money! I prefer to donate money to some smaller organisation like I did when I was in Spain, at least then I saw where the money was going to - i was the one doing all the accounting there! :P
LittleSpooky said on February 25, 2003 03:30:
And the hysterical thing is, this is 10% of your NET, not your GROSS (that is, 10% of what you bring home AFTER taxes *lol*)
gsobarzo said on February 25, 2003 20:25:
Judith,spooks, I think that a belief is more than a “money thing” situation...
I don’t pay taxes to “belong” to a religion... I pay it BECAUSE I’m christian. I don’t think it’s unfair. If i can pay, i pay, and If I can’t I don’t, because it’s not a requirement to believe.
I believe In JesusChrist as my Lord and only God.
* He brings me salvation... *lol
LittleSpooky said on February 26, 2003 04:35:
Gso: Nope. My ex is, however. And this is a REQUIREMENT of the LDS Church that you pay. This isn’t something that is negotiable. Not to mention the fact that you are considered “Un-Christian” if you don’t contribute, whether you really can afford this or not. These were only things I was pointing out in response to someone else’s post.
coyboyusa said on February 26, 2003 15:47:
the best quote i ever head i believe came from the movie the priest..btw a great gay themed movie..
before government there was the church...
oh and in stigmata...
turn a stone I am there, look under a branch and I am there , look in your heart and I am there
the quote was contrived fromw hat many believe to be lost or removed verses fromt he original bible in which god ytold jesus christ that divinity is not found solely in the church but everywhere in nature , in your home and in your hjeart..it was believe to have been removed because it undermoined what was the growing power of the church and it harked back to many pagan virtues
gsobarzo said on February 27, 2003 19:45:
Littlespooky: I see... I must note something anyway... I KNOW VERY WELL the LDS church and I can tell you that they’re NOT REPRESENTATIVE of the truly borned-again christians....
Oh, I forgot to say something....
I’M AGAINST RELIGION...
BUT VERY INTO JesusChrist, and HE is not a religion.
LittleSpooky said on February 28, 2003 07:58:
Did I say at any point in time that they were? No. I was merely stating something to Judith in terms of tithings, etc. So, erroneously quote my words all you want. If you go back and READ THOROUGHLY everything I said, you will note that I DO NOT support the LDS Church, nor do I CLAIM to follow their beliefs.
I knew posting here would be dangerous and stupid, I was just proven correct.
Th_Th said on February 28, 2003 15:49:
About the tithing thing, how is that wrong, if the Bible clearly tells you, that you have to pay tithing?
Th_Th said on February 28, 2003 15:54:
Little Spooky, I know you live in Utah, the state which some people would call “Mormon State”. If I am not mistaken more than 60 or 70 percent are LDS in Utah, so they also pay tithing. But please tell me, are the tithing paying members suffering at all, financially? I don’t know, this is why I am asking. I am really curious.
LittleSpooky said on March 1, 2003 05:08:
Th: With the economy in the US heading down (believe it or not), there have been many layoffs and stuff like that.
In terms of Utahns, the answer is: It really depends. Arrangements and what not can be made and so on, as well as things like: “If you’re Chief Bible Duster, then you can pay x amount and so on.” I’m not a member of this faith, so I’m not sure of all the practices. Utah economy is in the crapper even more so than the nation because we held the Winter Games here and built everything from SCRATCH.
Only one of the Olympic Games in the last 20 odd years ever came out ahead and that was the Los Angeles Summer Games. The hotels and most of the arenas were already there (used by tourists, Pro-Ball teams, and the like). So, we’re in a crunch. However, the more “well to do” members of the church donate to their “food bank” and stuff like that so other members who may have fallen on hard times (lost wages due to injury, etc) can survive. It’s a form of Welfare, but only for those who are LDS.
I don’t know if this makes any sense to you, if all else fails, email me and we’ll continue from there. Email’s in the profile.
LittleSpooky said on March 2, 2003 10:23:
Not touching that for the simple fact that it’s not worth raising the blood pressure any more
Aaso said on March 2, 2003 20:49:
It means that I do not belive in any lind of religion man!!!! got it? :))
harriej said on March 2, 2003 20:49:
I was raised as a christian (protestant), but nowadays I don’t do anything with it anymore.
Th_Th said on March 3, 2003 08:35:
gsobarzo:
Believe me, what you call it, the “Mormons” (chich is actually just a nickname to the church’s members, which they don’t really like that much...) are Christians!
If you do not think so, tell me anything unchristian about them. I studied a lot about Religion, for years and years, and I really can not find anything unchristian about them.
So, please tell me what’s unchristian about them?
gsobarzo said on March 5, 2003 19:17:
Ok... I’m telling I don’t believe they are representative of the Christian faith.
The Latter-Day Saints’ is a politheistic (it’s spelled ok?) religion and I don’t think that this can be called christian.
i’ve met wonderful people who belongs to this religion, and i really admire they missionary work and sunday school, helping to the poor, etc, but If we talk about doctrine and secret stuff I can tell you that they are not representative of the Christian Faith. Many of this stuff is right against the biblical teachings.
I hope I was clear... I don’t have the tongues gift... haha...
snobbtjej said on March 5, 2003 22:04:
sweet_stalker57 said on March 6, 2003 04:03:
I like the mormons cause they kick their daughters down at an early age. :)
LittleSpooky said on March 6, 2003 04:44:
A theological discussion between Th and Gs.. THIS should be good. *chuckles* Because both have correct points.
One of the things that has turned me against this particular religion is they tried to “convert” Hitler, Hess, and other Nazis to the LDS Faith to “save thier souls”. They did the same to Anne Frank, although the Jewish community just about castrated most of the LDS Heirarchy for that.
vivien said on March 6, 2003 08:45:
I believe in God but I don´t believe in religion , church and priests and so on.
Th_Th said on March 6, 2003 08:48:
Sweetstalker: please explain your statment?? Doesn’t make sense to me somehow... ;-)
gsobarzo: what does politheistic mean? I really don’t have a clue. Please confirm the meaning to me.
Spooky: How did they try to convert Hitler, Anne Frank etc?
All you guys are saying, that the LDS church have got many teachings or doctrine, that go right against the Bible. Please give me some examples.
I have studied a lot of years about so many different religions in the world and have met an uncountable amount of members of so many different faiths. I would say, I actually know quite a bit about the LDS faith, and some things stated here, are stated without any examples or explanations. I am really interested in the worlds religions and would always like to learn more about them...
One thing I have to say about the Bible though, is, that the Bible is so different in the different languages. The mostly used Bible in Germany for example even have got more Books. (the martin luther translation) Comparing the MArtin Luther translation to the King James Bible for example, I have found major diferences in some translations, which sometimes even change the meaning totally! So, in what country or what language is the Bible true and in what country or language is the Bible not true??
Another thing, the Catholic church had taken Books out of the Bible hundrets of years ago, before the Bible was available for everybody. Their explanation was, that those things mentioned in those Books are not to be understood by the normal christian. so, if they have taken Books out of the Bible, did they maybe add some as well? Or did they change some things around? Who knows... it would be interesting to know though. The Bible cleary states it self, that we are not supposed to add or take away from the Bible itself. Clearly, the catholics have done that themselves.
gsobarzo said on March 6, 2003 15:52:
Actually i don’t know if the politheistic is a word in english... but in spanish is “politeista” from greek “Poli” (Lots) and “Teos” (God)... so the word means something like “Lots of gods”.
Biblical teachings are clear that there is only ONE God and LDS beliebe in infinite gods in infinite universes.
And about the Bible thing, I believe that the Bible is the word of God as it was given originaly, and that the many traductions available today are still keeping the central message. If God could create the light, the life and my dog, how could he not keep His Word on the earth???...
Oh, and talking about the catholic church... they have quite more books on their bibles than protestant ones.
:P
:P
Blessings
Th_Th said on March 6, 2003 16:09:
gsobarzo:
So please tell me about the other Gods of the LDS church??
Are you saying that, because they believe Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father to be two individuals? Common Guys, even the Bible clearly states that! I will not go to deep into Bible discussion here now, but I will give just one simple example which probably everybody knows: When Jesus Christ was baptized, the heavens opened and a voice was heard, which said something like: “This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased. At the same time the Holy Ghost came in the form as a dove down to Jesus. Do you actually think, that Jesus Christ was talking to himself?? Well, to put it quite simple, I don’t think Jesus was schizo! ;-) lol So this teaching of the LDS Church actually makes much more sense than what the Catholic Church teaches. Another things that just comes to my mind, when Jesus was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, was he praying to himself?? I don’t think so. It is so obvious that Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father are two individuals... ;-) Just makes sense, doesn’t it?
Th_Th said on March 6, 2003 16:26:
Another thing I was told by a Catholic Priest, which I thought made a lot of sense is:
Compare the Catholic Church to a tree. The stake of the tree is the churches foundation, and all the other branches are churches, that changes the doctrine of the catholic church. Fact is, if the catholic church is wrong, every other church has got to be wrong as well!! Why? Because every other Protestant church, got their teachings from the Catholic church, and maybe just changed a few things around! So, if I take a lie and change it around, it still doesn’t become true. Therefore, it only makes sense, that if the Catholic church is not true, all the other Churches can not be true either, as they are originated from the Catholic church really. A branch of a dead tree also is dead. So if you say, that the Catholic church (stake of the tree) is wrong (dead) all the other protestant churches (branches of a tree) must also be wrong (dead). Therefore, the Catholic church can be the only true church, as the branches, which are the protestant churches, have changed the origins of the Catholic church around. (To change a lie around, doesn’t make it true) This priest told me something that really shocked me, he told me all of this, because I asked him something about the LDS church. He said, simply, there is not the Question, which of all the 100.000 Christian Churches are true. As they all are originated in the catholic church. (Which they really are) The shocking thing to me was, that he said: “Therefore, the question is, if the LDS Church or the Catholic Church is true, as all the other churches just can not be true. Because the LDS Church is the only church, that doesn’t only base its teachings on the Bible, but also on another testament of Jesus Christ, another Book of Scripture.
He said to me, there is no other Christian church that can actually say that. As they all only have the Book of Scripture (Bible) which was made available to the world from the Catholic Church.
I don’t know if this made any sense at all now, as I sometimes have got some difficulties expressing myself. ;-) But when the priest said that to me, it made lots of sense! ;-)
LittleSpooky said on March 6, 2003 19:01:
Th: I don’t know specifically how this is done, however, I do know that there are steps that someone can take to do a ’posthumous’ conversion. They can have someone take the Baptism for this person (Hitler, Hess, Frank), and so on and then their names are added to the ’rolls’ as members in good standing with the LDS Church. Flat out, ANY religion that does that offends me to no end. NO ONE has the right to ’convert’ someone after their death.
That’s one of the fears I have because I have an aunt and uncle that are members, however, they know how I feel about stuff like this, so they won’t do the ’baptism’ of me after my death. *shrugs* Th, I’m not someone who is really knowledgable about the LDS religion. I just know bits and pieces because I have family that dropped the LDS faith to become Catholic (etc) and I also have friends who have converted.
I think that what Gs is hitting at is that in the LDS teachings, they teach their members that they can become Gods or God-like if they follow all the “rules and regulations” of the Book Of Mormon. It’s common knowledge that LDS members say that the Book of Mormon is another “testament of Jesus Christ”. Not quite. It’s the story of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the LDS movement out of Nauvoo.
One of the other things about this faith is that they claim their “Presidents” are “Prophets”. I’m sorry, I don’t hear anyone call the Pope a prophet, yet you hear “President Hinckley” or “Prophet Hinckley”. Folks, God Himself neglected to inform me that your “ELECTED” President is a prophet. Anyway... I’m glad to have a productive discussion, rather than a “My faith is better than yours nanny nanny boo boo”. Thanks for kepeing it tame, Th and Gs. I really do appreciate it.
gsobarzo said on March 6, 2003 22:26:
th_th
quick answer.....
yep I mean what littlespooky said... LDS believe there are other gods in other universes and that they’ll become gods themselves.
I don’t think that God the Father and Jesus are two different persons. And I think that the Bible supports this, not that they are two.
Ok... later I’ll answer the rest.
gsobarzo said on March 6, 2003 22:36:
Oh, I forgot to say that I agree with you th_th about the “branches” thing....
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!.... :P
I think that the Catholic church is actually a branch of the original Christian Faith.... and noth the “Original Christians”.... I believe that Protestant faith is a comeback to the origin. If the first church is wrong, then all the rest is wrong, but I don’t think that the Catholic church is the stake of my tree... (hehe). they are just another branch, just kept the name.
well... blessings, and I celebrate your interest in religions. I also like that.
You never told us which you prefer yourself anyway...
*_*
;-)
Th_Th said on March 7, 2003 09:39:
Little Spooky: what I actually know about the LDS faith is, that it is true, they do baptisms for dead people. A friend of mine had done that too, and he explained it to me. He said, everybody has to get the chance to actually get baptized by the proper authority. Of course there are millions of people, that die without ever having been baptized. The LDS faith teaches, that once the babtism for the dead is done, that it is up to the individual, to actually accept it or not., because everybody has got their free agency. And are you sure that the thing about Hitler etc is not just a myth? As no church official has ever come out and said such a thing actually.
Spooky, this is something you really should ot worry about, even IF someone would do the baptism for you if you were dead, if you do not accept it, it is as if it never had been done. No one can convert another person, only God can.
I know though, that the catholic church has got lists of all people that die, if they are a member or not, and they say prayers and blessings, so their souls might not be condemned. How messed up is that?
Spooky, I actually have read the book of Mormon, and your statement made me laugh big time! ;-) The book is not about Joseph Smith, nor Brigham Young or anything like that. Joeseph Smith has found ancient plates of scriptures, he translated them, that’s what the Book of Mormon is. And nothing in there even mentions the LDS movement, as the Book of Mormon was completely translated, before the first LDS even moved out of Nauvoo, yes, even before they ever settled in Nauvoo! ;-) The Book of Mormon captures the time period, 600 before christ until about 400 years after christ. About a nation living on the american continent, that lived around placed where Mexico would be about today. It is about the people that lived there, how they dealt with life and struggles and their faith in God. Well, we all know, that people had been living there on the american continent anyway, so the stroy doesn’t even seem far fetched to me.
About the Prophet thing: It is another point that makes so much sense to me. The LDS church really goes back to the roots of the Church that was on earth when Jesus Christ was on earth. The Bible times always had prophets. Never ever in the Bible it is mentioned that the leader of a church is a Pope! But they always had prophets! Jesus Christ had twelve apostles, this is how Jesus Christ set up his church when he was alive on earth, and this is how the LDS have set up the chruch of Jesus christ of latter day saints.
One funny thing is, when I look at the LDS Prophet, he is coming up to be 100 years old, and he still runs around without a stick, he is in such good condition, he travells the world to do good. He never rests. When he speaks to the people, he looks at them, and doesn’t read anything from some sheet of paper. But the pope can not even do that. He reads whats in front of him, and he can hardly do that either.
I also love open discussion like that about different faiths.
gsobarzo:
What the LDS Church actually believes is, that we have to set Jesus Christ as our example, and we should try to become more as he is. As Jesus Christ was perfect, only he can be the Perfect example to us. So this only makes sense. We all know, that no one can be perfect, as the Bible sais itself: “The natural man is an enemy to God.” Meaning, we are not perfect! The LDS believe, we should try our best though.
To be really honest with you gsobarzo, I must say, that the LDS faith makes most sense to me, much more than any other church in the World. What I love about them is, that their faith is open minded, it goes straight back to the teachings of christ, it is set up as Jesus Christ Church was when he was on earth himself. And I think it is cool, that they actually do have prophets and apostles, doesn’t this somehow show, that the LDS church really is set up as Jesus Christ did it himself? I mean, when did Jesus Christ say, instead of Prophets or Apostles, we should have a Pope? ;-)
I do have one more Question to you gsobarzo though, where does the Bible support, that Jesus Christ and Hevenly Father are one? How would you like to explain the example of Jesus Christs baptism then?
gsobarzo said on March 9, 2003 04:56:
Ok, I like your comment, th_th
As I told you before I am a christian man, belonging to the protestant church, presbyterian specifically. And I don’t know why God does what he does, but I’ve study deeply the LDS beliefs and I’ve read the entire Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenats (And I’m telling you this, because is pretty rare to find a protestant person who has read those books)...
Ok, what I’m saying is that I know that is easy to think that the LDS church makes “more sense”...
I know you have the right to choose what church or religion you prefer. I respect that,and I respect you , because God gave us that right. But I have to say that you better not choose the Church Of JesusChrist of the Latter-Day Saints before you know exactly what they believe, why and if it is according to the Bible. I’ve realized that the mormon church is a Puzzle.
I have read some other non-canonic books of the LDS. One marverlous work and a wonder (or something like that) and Teachings of the profet Joseph Smith. I can tell you after reading those, that they not only think that they have to be like Jesus, the believe that if you’re worthy YOU’LL BE A GOD YOURSELF SOMEDAY ALSO....
They have the law of eternal progression and they believe that Elohim is only one of the thousands of thousands of gods that are in the universe.
I share with the mormons the love I feel to Jesus Christ. He’s my redeemer. As you said God asks us to be perfect as Himself,and we are his enemies. But thanks to Jesus now the ones who believe in Him as redeemer are now able to be called sons of God.
I don’t think that mormons are bad persons. i think that the doctrine of the LDS church is bad. They commited the same sin than Adam & Eve. They want to be like God.
Here are some references about the truly God Jehovah (Elohim to the LDS, but the same to me)
God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)
And about Jesus Christ: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17)
They’re the same person, the Godhead or trinity. S. John 1:1, one of my favourites.
I love the scene of Jesus baptism. It is the trinity all in the same place. I don’t think that is a prove that they are three apart. God can do everything... not something we’ll always understand.
I have a question for you too... where does in the Bible says we need NEW apostles and prophets to rule the Church???
blessings.
LittleSpooky said on March 9, 2003 09:23:
Th: Of course the Heirarchy of the LDS Church would DENY ever such thing happened, however, for a brief time, Hitler, Hess and other key players in the Nazi 3rd Reich, as well as Anne Frank and her family were listed on the “Roles” of the LDS Church as members. That’s what I’m saying though, someone ELSE accepts the baptism FOR them. How that’s done, I don’t know and not really interested in it, to be honest. The fact that SOMEONE decides to do this is what irritates me. Anne Frank and her family were Jewish, plain and simple. “Who are YOU to decide that they should be baptized into the LDS Faith?” (Rhetorical question, I’m only using the question that a local Jewish Rabbi posed to the Heirarchy.
It can be done, whether or not you are dead doesn’t make a difference to them apparently. Of course, it is denied by them, however, the names appear anyway on the roles as “members in good standing” despite the fact that they are DEAD. What a trip.
As for the Book Of Mo, I refuse to read any more of it. I have little tolerance for hyppocracy. It’s a “Do As I Say, Not As I Do” for a lot of members... I know what I speak of for the how I’ve been treated by some people in the past. Just because I’m not LDS, I have been treated as a second class citizen by others. However, I won’t get into that because that is a sore spot.
LittleSpooky said on March 9, 2003 09:40:
Oh, and while I’m at it, once again, thanks to the both of you for the tone of the discussion. I’m glad that we agree to disagree (lol) and that we’re still friends as well.
kachina008 said on March 9, 2003 14:34:
can someone tell me why is it that so many christian ppl have so many kids?
LittleSpooky said on March 9, 2003 18:27:
Somewhere in the Bible, I’m not sure where, but SOMEONE said to SOMEONE ELSE (I can’t remember the specific players):
“Go Forth And Populate The Earth” or something to that effect. Apparently some people have taken it literally and want to populate the Earth all by them selves.
AND, Catholics and LDS Members believe that sex is for procreation only and don’t believe in birth control.
ANOTHER reason I don’t like EITHER churches: Non-belief in birth control. LOOK AROUND PEOPLE, THERE’S NO ROOM AT THE INN!!!!!! We can BARELY support what we have now!!! And some of this is for another discussion entirely, because I don’t want to piss anyone off here *lol* (again).
Th_Th said on March 10, 2003 09:10:
gsobarzo:
this is what I was affraid of, it could turn into, a bible bashing discussion, and I am one big enemy of bible bashing. I could also list lots of scriptures that would proof the point of the LDS church right, all taken out of the Bible also. You said, that God can do everything, I believe that too. At Jesus Baptism, you say, it was only one person. Even though it might not make sense to us, but I believe, that God is not a Gos of confusion. Why would he try to confuse us? Wouldn’t he like us to have a clear understanding of who he is? I am sorry to say, but the LDS teaching on that just make so much more sense to me. I have to say, it makes me really sad, that you dropped the level of this discussion by throwing out lots of scriptures, to prrof your point right. I could do the same, but what would it proof in the end? Nothing. In Bible bashing, no one can proof anything.
You know, how come, when I say, that I like the LDS chruch teachings, everyone goes against it? Like you just have done. But if I would have said, I like the catholics, no one would have cared?? And I can tell you, the catholics have got some perverted and sickening doctrine... which I really don’t want to go in deeper.
To answer your question on the need of NEW apostles, where in the Bible does it say, that there is not need of apostles anymore? There is no place in the Bible, where this doctrine was taken away by Jesus Christ. Besides that, where does it say, there is a need for a pope? Because that is not mentioned.
Little Spooky:
Reading your comment, it seems like you have not been reading my previous comments... ;-)
Little Spooky, you really made me laugh big time! ;-) Itn is just not true that Mormons do not believe in birth control! lol This statement is just not true! ;-) I do know some LDS couples, that do use birth control and I have discussed this matter with some of the LDS leaders, as this was something I always wondered about, and I was told by everybody, that this is up to each individual, no one has got the right to intervere in this matter. I was told by some LDS, that they believe Sex to be one of the highest expressions of love, you can do it as much as the both of you want to, without having to get pregnant. Of course you have to use birth control, otherwise every LDS female would get a baby every single year! ;-) lol I know for a fact, that this statment is one of the biggest missunderstandings of the LDS church! ;-)
I think, on some things, that we can not proof to each other, we should just agree to disagree, without feeling hurt or anything. ;-)
nedved said on March 10, 2003 23:08:
@kachina, hinduism is a interesting religon. Karma, reencarnation... Ghovinda, Krishna, Brahma... it’s good if you wanna have a spiritual peace.
LittleSpooky said on March 11, 2003 06:11:
Th: Come to Utah and take a look around at a lot of the girls today. Then you’ll understand my comments on that.
And yes, I’ve been reading your posts, I’m just stating what I know. I’m NOT an authority. Never claimed to be ;o)
*MUAH* Love yas both!
Th_Th said on March 11, 2003 08:31:
Spooks:
I know, there are some serious mad girls in Utah! ;-) hahaha... I think, some of the girls are sopathetic, they seem to be living in a different world. Well, I don’t think I could live there really... I have heard so many bad things about it and I have been there once, which wasn’t that bad, but I suppose it must be different for someone living there actually. Someone like you. ;-)
gsobarzo said on March 11, 2003 15:20:
th_th
Why are you reacting like that?????? uh??????
It’s NOT a Bible bashing what I’ve just pointed to.... It was totally necesary to make my point clear... And if I didn’t then this would become a shallow conversation.
Listen, You asked me about my impression, and everything I do is to put my trust on the Bible.
I really cannot understand your reaction....
“Maybe you’ve been brainwached too” (as a New Radicals album, I’m quoting :P )... I think it’s pretty usual that when I talk with LDS Missionaries and LDS members react like you.
ALL I WAS POINTING TO WAS: th_th... be careful, be careful, be careful.... you don’t know what kind of religion you are dealing with....
The JesusChrist that I’ve fallen in love with has nothing to do with the church of JesusChrist of the Latter-Day saints.
I respect your right to choose, but be careful.
Meet Jesus, not a church. Love God, not a religion.
(As you see I didn’t quote any Bible scripture this time. Hope you don’t get mad)
coyboyusa said on March 11, 2003 19:11:
actualyl this brings soemthign of mind to me....in all the holly books the prophets and their teachers are men of poverty they know not of worldly posessions etc
so then why does the pope wear robes emblazend in gold...drive in a limo etc
isnt;’ that being incredibly hypocritical
Th_Th said on March 12, 2003 16:17:
gsobarzo:
sorry mate, I never got mad or anything like that, it just made me sad, how you turned this into a bible bashing discussion, and you did.
One more thing about the LDS church, don’t they always say, don’t take our word for granted but pray and ask God? That is only fair I think. Have you ever asked God directly if they might be true? I have asked God this Question about quite a few churches (I won’t name any names here) and he always gave me clear answers, sometimes even in incredible ways.
Do you think I am such a fool, that I would run out and just join any church! ;-) Believe me one thing, I have studied more than 10 years about Religion and Churches and I think by now I should know what churches are bad and which ones are not bad. lol
Mate, I hope you don’t get upset or anything like it just because I state that I love the LDS church. I never wrote anything here with the meaning to offend anyone or to attack anyone, and I must say, I am surprised that you took many things in such a wrong way.
Why do you tell me to be carefull about the LDS chruch? You don’t tell anyone that’s interested in the catholic chruch or protestant chruch, or Budism etc to be carefull...
I have not come across anything about the LDS church, that I do not like. Who cares? No need be upset about that.
Peace to all of you my friends! ;-)
gsobarzo said on March 12, 2003 16:51:
th_th
I think that we have a BIG language barrier over here... that’s why we both have missunderstood our previous post... I’m pretty sure if we both could speak german or spanish we could have understand better what each other wants really to say.
Why I insist about you and the LDS church?, well, because I have a testimony myself about the LDS church, and I really wanted to share it with you. I’m not agree with many (or most) of the doctrines of the catholics, buddhist, muslims, etc, but now is the LDS church that has my center of atention.
I don’t think that you’re a poor fool. I admire your years of searching and that despite of all you’ve decided by the name of JesusChrist... (though as I told you, the JC I know has nothing to do with LDS’s). I have made my choosing too, I met LDS church just like you, and despite all the wonderful things & people they could show me, despite their fabulous organisation, despite their amazing histoy, beautiful scriptures, etc, I don’t believe they are the True Church of JesusChrist... and if they are not, then I think is a dangerous group. Dangerous to the soul.
You can ask the LORD, I know is true, and I’ve asked if you wonder. And my beloved creator has answer me... not with burnings in my stomach, nor visions, nor feelings of any kind. He answers me with his very word... The Bible has been the key in my desition.
“Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test.”
-Brigham Young, 1873
It didn’t pass the test to me. I keep my Jesus.
LittleSpooky said on March 13, 2003 04:33:
Th: Which is why I feel like a political prisoner here at times *lmfao*
*whispers* I’m trying to make a run for the border and hope the Idiot Police don’t come get me and haul me back here. It’ll take a while for the plans to develop... so.... sssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh
*Spooks off*
Oh, and coyboy: Have you EVER SEEN the Pope drive? I haven’t.
Th_Th said on March 13, 2003 16:46:
Spooks: you seem to be such a cool character! ;-) you make me laugh. You seem to be totaly sane, that’s what I admire about you.
nate said on March 16, 2003 05:09:
Hi there, I’m also Christian. Just to comment on something said earlier, although there are similarities between Christianity and LDS, there are also some fundamental differences which make them distinct:
Christians believe that justification comes from faith in Christ alone. LDS believes justification comes from a combination of faith and good works etc.
Christians believe in one God only (monotheism). LDS believe in many gods (polytheism). LDS also believe that man can become God.
I could go on because there are many more; but, I do not believe that is necessary to bring my point accross and that is, they’re not the same.
Without intending to be offensive to anyone, Mormons are about as Christian as hindus are bhuddist. You cannot claim to be one thing and believe something else.
Anyway, it’s getting late - Sunday morning already... G’night all.
powerpoplarry said on March 16, 2003 08:25:
Interesting discussions, y’all, but I will just add a LITTLE something, which might take this conversation along a different tangent:
Christianity/Catholicism, and all similar religions, they all were spawned from Judaism, BECAUSE Jesus Christ was born a Jewish man. Period.
LittleSpooky said on March 16, 2003 08:52:
*rolls around laughing*
Th: Thanks. Although there are those that doubt my sanity (see playing paint ball with little protective gear ;o) )
This has been one of the best discussions of religion I have ever particpated in. The only other one was in high school, and the girl I was talking to was one of my best friends. She tried to get me to go to Fireside (I guess that’s early morning scripture readings in Seminary). I wasn’t keen and told her why. We remained friends, although I miss talking to her (drifted apart after school).
gsobarzo said on March 16, 2003 23:09:
I won’t deny that christianity COMES from judaism. You forgot to say that also Islam comes from judaism.
My lord was jewish, Paul was jewish, Peter and all the rest.
nate said on March 17, 2003 00:20:
I admit I do not know much about the Islamic faith but if Islam comes from Judaism, what do Muslims think about the Old Testiment? Are any of the OT books highly regarded?
powerpoplarry said on March 17, 2003 04:45:
I have no idea, but I wonder, does Islam come from Judaism?? I mean, isn’t the Korean the root of all terror?? I haven’t read it, but I heard that it is one of the most violent, gory, evil books around. It seems many Muslims interpret/misinterpret it as to justify doing all those killings and terrorist attacks, as well as keep women down and abuse them, as well as accepting honour killings. Which all of it is dead wrong!!
LittleSpooky said on March 17, 2003 05:14:
Power: Don’t you mean the Koran?
Korean is someone from North or South Korea.
Ferdan said on March 17, 2003 05:33:
Ok people, want some seriouis discussion about religions?
look here http://www.faithfreedom.org:/forum/index.php
last time i saw it, it was a really well moderated forum about ALL religions.
Aaso said on March 17, 2003 05:39:
Tara it’s not Koran ... it’s Qoran ... the pronounciation is diff
powerpoplarry said on March 17, 2003 05:48:
Yes, that’s what I meant AASO, the Qoran!! I know you don’t believe in that stuff, and I’m not religious at all either, but I am respectful of my heritage.
Ferdan said on March 17, 2003 06:10:
ohhh.... i remember something
Non religious people is more respectful towards religion than religious people.
Why? cos religious people only respect their only religion and sometimes even fight to destroy all other religions ,
and nonreligious people if respects religion, respect every religion almost the same.
Aaso said on March 17, 2003 08:14:
I do not believe in any religion but I care about peoples mind ... about peoples ideas and beliefe.. that’s why i can not stand any one hurt my people with his or her words... I live in an Islamic country...
I think Muslims are a little strict ... But Christians are too ...
gsobarzo said on March 17, 2003 17:14:
Maybe Ferdan... I respect all others religions, but I better respect the people.
I am a Christian, but I won’t hate you just because you don’t believe what I do... I better pray for you. :o) That proves my faith on what I believe.
I love whrn people defends their point of views anyway... but is better when you THINK before defending something. don’t you think? that’s why we have our brains for... hehehe... :P
:P
cheers
gsobarzo said on March 17, 2003 17:22:
oh, nate. Muslims believe in the old testament but they don’t see it as a Holy Book as they do with AlQuoran, they look at it just like an history book. They respect Abraham as their ancestor, because they come from Ishmael.
I’ve heard also from a muslim that they believe in Jesus as a profet of Allah, and when he was talking to his disciples about the consoler (the Holy Spirit, Parakletos) he was talking about Mohhamed.
kachina008 said on March 17, 2003 19:24:
I dont think ANY religion is inherently “evil”.
what makes religion a powerful force is how some people can use it to manipulate others. in this sense, religion is indeed the opiate of the masses. religion isnt evil, man is. so there, chew on that!! :)
nate said on March 18, 2003 01:07:
Aaso I think that’s so beautiful that you care about other people’s ideas and beliefs. :0) - many people can learn from that.
pumpkins said on September 15, 2005 10:28:
so much talk about religion on here.
I only respect a persons religion if he/she lives according to what he/she believes.
zaine said on September 15, 2005 16:18:
I would usually consider myself Christian, however I have recently been told I should follow satanism.
“Before you scream, do a bit of research on it. To be a Satanist, you don’t actually have to believe in Satan. Satanism generally focuses upon the spiritual advancement of the self, rather than upon submission to a deity or a set of moral codes.”
LittleSpooky said on September 15, 2005 18:17:
Aaso: If ever you see this, that was called the “Retarded American Spelling” of the book.
I’ve seen it spelled as such in papers / print / websites, I was only going by what I knew at the time.
LittleSpooky said on September 16, 2005 18:41:
Kathrin: LDS = Latter Day Saint (a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints). And ye of long and pointless name ;o) It gets shortened to either LDS or Mormon.
Ally: I can give you a couple of websites to help out with the explination. Wiccans, first and foremost, ARE NOT WITCHES. It’s just something that has become “interchangable” through time. Some witches are Wiccan, but most are not the other way around. Wiccans believe not just in God, but Goddess as well. For example:
Cernunnos: In Celtic myth, Cernunnos is the God who is born at Yule, marries and mates with the Goddess at Beltane and then dies again at Samhain, to be reborn again at the following Yule. The cycle symbolizes the natural pattern of life and death. Cernunnos is more of an ancient archetype of nature rather than an individual with a distinct personality. Paleolithic cave drawings show a horned man that is presumed to be the same figure as Cernunnos. Translated, his name simply means “the Horned One”.
The famed Gundestrup cauldron has an excellent image of Cernunnos in the classic cross-legged pose, holding a torque and a snake. The Gundestrup cauldron is a large silver bowl covered in raised illustrations from various Celtic myths. It dates back to 200BC and had been well-preserved in a peat bog until 1891. He does not take part in any Celtic myths.
As a fertility God, Cernunnos was pictured with horns (much like the Greek Pan). Besides animals and fertility, he also rules over wealth, prosperity and the underworld. He is symbolized by various animals, such as the ram, stag and bull. In English myth, the same Deity figure existed but he was called Herne the Hunter.
Beltane: Is a holiday in the Wiccan Calendar. It falls around (April 30-May 1 - Western Hemisphere)
also known as: Mayday, Walburga, Galan Mai, Shenn da Boaldyn, Bealtinne, Beltine, Beltain, Beal-tine, Beltan, Bel-tien, Beltein, Bealtuinn and Bealtaine
The Land represented by the Goddess is now ripe and fertile and the Young God expresses His Love for Her. This is a time of joyous reveling as the first flowers of Summer are gathered in Their Honor.
http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/wicca101/
http://www.witchvox.com/
These are the two sites I’ve taken this information from.
ally77 said on September 16, 2005 19:22:
@ LS, thanx for those I am gonna have a read through them I am always keen to learn new stuff.... there was an entry in this years UK Big Brother who was a practising witch, she left after first week but I thought she was so good! :)
Who asked about the Atheist?
That is someone that does not believe in religion!
Debora said on October 7, 2005 20:16:
Well, I believe in God, but... I don’t know... I just look around and I wonder if God really exists. I want believe the answer is yes.
gsobarzo said on February 24, 2003 02:29:
Hey dear roxette fans... I am just curious to know if you belong to any creed or religion and what’s that... Don’t worry I’m tolerant ;)
Myself am Christian, specificaly presbyterian.
blessings...