LaMan said on August 31, 2005 20:16:

it´s the greenhouse effect... we´re all guilty remember.

rox-kuryliw said on August 31, 2005 20:20:

yes thats another thing, The US is the biggest polluter on earth and refuse to do anything about it to cut there emissions. How horribly ironic.

rox-kuryliw said on August 31, 2005 21:21:

lol @ally

Jud (moderator) said on August 31, 2005 22:01:

http://www2.dailyroxette.com/article.php/1766 this is the article about GT

I didn’t find anything else about the tsunami?

ally77 said on September 1, 2005 05:11:

By the way where was the article about the flood in Manchester last week.... lots of homes where destroyed because of human error.... NO article on TDR! ......

Santi said on September 1, 2005 13:14:

I think you’re pretty wrong. These storm’s power is not caused by man, you can’t explain everything on climate change. Not to mention that climate change is not only due to human action (review the fact that sun activity does change as well, and it’s stronger than in the last glaciation. Besides, movements in the earth orbit affect also the temperature on Earth, being so important that the warmest period in the Holocene -the last 10000- happened around 9000 years ago, not now!!)

I think it’s way worse to build cities on former wetlands, that as the name tells us, used to be wet, so filled with water. There’s a saying in Spanish that goes “The river always comes back to its riverbed”. Living in a city that is some metres under sea level myself (Amsterdam, The Netherlands) it feels all a bit scary, especially taking into account the blind faith that people has on technology, like the dikes.

Jud (moderator) said on September 1, 2005 18:33:

http://landsat.usgs.gov/gallery/detail/412/

:S

maybe they should think of re-building the whole thing somewhere else?

So there another prove that we are plain stupid. Who else on Earth lives in areas that are dangerous (because of floodings, earthquakes, vulcanos, etc) and where such disasters have happened again and again? The animal walking on two legs.

Jud (moderator) said on September 2, 2005 06:01:

maybe instead of worrying about a simple article in TDR, you should worry about the chaos the city is in right now, and what the authorities are doing about it.

Incredible what this is developing into :O

ally77 said on September 2, 2005 16:41:

I was discussing this at work today with people, we all feel so sorry for all those affected but most of us agree that the USA seem so slow to respond to this.....

From the pictures on TV, it’s like a 3rd world or something now.... sickening....

Oldag75 said on September 2, 2005 18:36:

The New Orleans city government specifically, and Louisiana state government generally, have been systematically inept and corrupt since about 1910. The New Orleans geographic problems have been recognized for more than 50 years, and all that their elected politicians have ever done is talk about it – while continuing to schmooze their way into office, tax the citizens, and line their own pockets via deals on the side. If you look at that idiot New Orleans mayor, and the whining Louisiana governor, you will see what their system of patronage and favor has produced: Zero performance, when performance was needed the most. For an informal, truth-based fictional account of how Louisiana has functioned for a century, read “All The King’s Men” by Robert Penn Warren.

LittleSpooky said on September 2, 2005 23:11:

Jude: Don’t know about the whole “white God / Black Retribution” thing.

All I know is that relief did not begin for 72 hours (yeah, THREE DAYS) after the “all clear” was given to let people in to do this. I’ve been sending mass emails to people to see about providing money and supplies and I’ve been told to “hang onto my money” because it won’t get there unless I send it through the Catholic Church, LDS Church or other “religious affiliations”. Supplies ARE NOT getting there in a timely fashion.

The National Guard troops that are there are men and women who JUST came back from Iraq and have orders for “shoot to kill” against these so called looters. As soon as I can find the page, there was a couple of captions that belonged to pictures:

A black man, wading chest deep in water, “looted” a store to get food.

Same article, a white couple “found” food and what not and took it.

Tell me about the racism.

Anarem said on September 3, 2005 02:17:

I have friends down in Louisiana I can’t contact. People have lost their homes. We’re sitting here at our computers, with full bellies, under roofs, sniping at each other... we’re pretty damn lucky to be where we are.

LittleSpooky said on September 4, 2005 01:49:

(edited to stop unnecessary scroll bar)

Coyboy: Here’s your “relief”.

Oldag: Blame THIS on the Governer of Louisiana and the Mayor of NO (read the article and then tell me it’s THEIR fault because THEY are “corrupt”.)
*************************************************************************************************************************
Category: News & Opinion (General) Topic: News & Current Events
Synopsis: Air Force cargo specialist describes what COULD have been done, but was not.
Source: Military.com forum
Published: September 3, 2005 Author: Christine Meyer
For Education and Discussion Only. Not for Commercial Use.

LETTER TO AMERICA IT JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE ADDRESSED TO THE NAACP. I’M STANDING FIRM TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, THIS WAS WRONG AND ANY OF YOU MILITARY FOLKS SHOULD KNOW THIS. IT TOOK TOO LONG, TOO LONG.

THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE BY ANY MEANS!

NAACP,

I am contacting you to request representation to spread information to the American Public about the events that have taken place over the last four days.
I am a Veteran of the United States Air Force and I want to share some information with anyone who will listen to me. I served during this wartime up until last may. I also served in an Active Duty career field in the AF called Aerial Delivery. I worked at a base in New Mexico in a Special Operations Wing. I have served my time, with honorable discharge. I have information I would like to share with the American public as there is a dire need for them to know.
Pararescue is a Special Operations career field within the United States Air Force AFSOC Command, and also a career field in which we in Aerial Delivery worked along side with in duties and responsibilities. Pararescue has the sole responsibility of search, rescue, and relief. Aerial Delivery has the responsibility of anything involving methods of Air Delivery Systems.
I would like to get some information across to the American public that has not been covered by the media thus far. I am in great distress at this point watching the events over the past few days and how they have been handled by our leadership. I have no more loyalty to this administration and I would like to share the knowledge that I have, as I believe it is the right of the American public to know the truth.
Our leadership called upon the National Guard for disaster relief. The National Guard serving as homeland security. What the major problem is here is the Commander in Chief’s FAILURE to call upon Active Duty military persons across this country to step in for relief efforts. It was our federal government leadership’s soul responsibility to the victims, yet they FAILED completely at ordering for Active Duty military support in this time of great need.
I will explain this the best way that I can for those who are not familiar with the military structure. Although the National Guard has a responsibility for homeland security, this is not set in stone and in an emergency situation such as this, it is only the most obvious to call in for Active Duty troops immediately. Active Duty being the name for those military persons across the country who are full time military and government employees. The National Guard are those who spend one weekend per month in training and are able to balance school and work along with their military service responsibilities.
The National Guard are also those military persons who are more often deployed to conflict overseas and are now far stretched and limited in their resources due to the war in Iraq.
With that said, I will explain how it is only the most obvious that our leadership had the responsibility to call upon Active Duty military immediately upon learning the wide spread damage of this disaster. I also wish to point out numerous ways in which this has been an absolute failure to act accordingly by the President of the United States along with Donald Rumsfeld.
I am absolutely horrified at the events that I have watched on the news and I cannot keep my mouth shut as someone who worked in a career field whose main responsibilities was in Aerial Delivery, wartime & humanitarian efforts aid/relief, air delivery systems.
Air delivery, working at a Special Operations Wing in New Mexico constantly conducts simulated humanitarian relief air drops in their desert drop-zones. The duties and responsibilities I held were those in which the United States Air Force uses not only use for situations such as the war in Iraq, but in humanitarian efforts across the globe.
I wish to point out a few very specific things that could have been accomplished IMMEDIATELY by our military leaders, the Commander in Chief and President of the United States. The President has not only failed these people on the Gulf Coast, he has failed his military and he has failed us all, as our leader.
I am sickened and words do not even begin to explain how I feel at this point. I will tell you that I know the in’s and out’s of this career field, I am not an expert but I am someone who worked rigging parachutes and working in simulated cargo load air drops. To make this more understandable for the American public, our main job was to simulate situations such as this, where the military would need to get supplies on the ground in either wartime or peacetime.
In this, I have experience working to not only loading and rig up cargo and parachutes, but also understand that we spend time playing “war games” out in the desert of New Mexico, as well as on the waters off of Patrick’s Air Force Base, Florida to simulate these relief drops.
I’ve worked not only in rigging and packing but also in simulation and recover. Setting up targets in drop-zone’s, for pilot training efforts to get more precise drops, simulating cargo and pallet drops for such relief efforts via air delivery systems.
To explain in the most laymen’s of terms, our job duties involved the operations used to get supplies to ground troops in wartime such as water, food, necessities, from bottled water to hummer vehicles. In these duties we are able to strategically place/or drop ANYTHING, anywhere, at anytime by air to ground troops.
All this is accomplished by Air Force pilots who constantly train for targeting and have proper deployment of these airdrops to whatever ground location they need to be placed. Thus, there is absolutely question that dropping supplies on such areas could not have be accomplished in an effective manner beginning within only hours of the validated report of widespread damage.
In this, I know full well the capabilities and resources that we had available for the relief efforts during this disaster, not but just a few flight hours away from the disaster area of the Gulf Coast. I know for fact that I waited for three days to see one of the many, many, 53 helicopters that our Active Duty military has available within short distance of this disaster. I waited and waited to see the equipment and resources that we have sitting on this base to be used in the mission to save these dying people. Yet I waited in vain.
The Active Duty military was never called upon by the President of the United States. It is now day four of this horrific crisis and I have yet to see any action at all.
Our President never gave the word for the Active Duty troops to step into this situation, when we had all of the available resources ready and waiting to save thousands of lives, not but two states away and at bases located all across this country.
For the President and chain of military command to make this choice of not calling upon the Active Duty troops, I feel I am witnessing genocide upon our own American people.
I will not remain quiet about the resources I know we have ready and available when I have worked in a career field dedicated to not only war time efforts but in humanitarian relief efforts such as this. Humanitarian aid and relief that we constantly use and are fully qualified to handle at a moments notice.
I will also say that I see this now, at day four, as a planned strategic move by our leadership, but cannot for the life of me find reason as to why they did not choose to call upon our Active Duty troops immediately after all destruction knowledge was fully presented and known by our leadership.
The National Guard were the only military members in this situation, the same branch of the military that is stretched to the limit in our war overseas. Active Duty military, are full time military members. Although they have various duties and responsibilities, I can say that Active Duty military persons across the United States could have been more swiftly called upon by our leadership as they are full time military persons across this country ready and available at any time.
The National Guard had to be “recalled” to duty. The National Guard consists of part time military and government employees. The Active Duty military consists of full time military and government employees. Most Active Duty members live on bases across this country, many National Guard military persons would need to be recalled from their townships and civilian activities. Thus causing a time issue that I do not believe would be present if Active Duty were given order to step into the situation.
With this said, most National Guard members are going to college, working regular civilian jobs, and not considered “full time” yet they are deployed to conflict overseas more often then Active Duty military members.
On the other hand, Active Duty military persons can usually be reached much faster as they often live on bases across this country and are less likely then the National Guard to be in action overseas. In the most simple of terms, all military persons are ready and waiting government employees. It would have been much faster to have called upon the Active Duty enlisted military members (full time) that are located through out this country. Yet it was not done.
I am outraged, and I can tell you numerous ways in which our leadership have failed and not used all of the resources available to us that the American tax payer has paid for, while we simulate such relief efforts everyday. We simulate these drops, meaning we are wasting tax payer money when we do not utilize the resources we have available to us in a crisis such as this on our own soil.
The National Guard did not have all of the resources available in such short notice to have been ordered to work alone in these efforts. Active Duty has many more members working in these specific career fields that could have stepped into the relief efforts to resolve problems such as loss of communications and delivery of supplies.
I am outraged and I will explain various ways in which we fix simple problems such as communication loss and the need to get supplies on the ground quickly and efficiently. I say simple, because the problems presented in this crisis had more then simple solutions to save thousands of lives. Our President failed to give the Active Duty troops across America the “word” to step in, so while these resources stayed unused not but a few hours away, we have watched as America people have perished in front of our own eyes.
The resources that remained unused included not only equipment, supplies, but also trained and qualified professionals to deal with such situations. We left helicopters sitting unused in hangers not but a few hours away, we left men who were fully trained and qualified to deliver supplies and survival equipment by air within minutes, sitting on bases across the United States waiting for the “word” and order by our President for them to take action. We left not only helicopters unused, but parachutes, equipment, supplies, and all the resources that we needed to save these people from dying in front of us. We also failed to utilize the full resources of trained Pararescue professionals.
We have Special Operations units in the state of New Mexico and the state of Florida alone that could have handled this situation quickly and efficiently, saving thousands upon thousands of lives. Yet they were never given the word to go.
I would like to also point out that we have an entire career field dedicated to Air Delivery methods alone in the United States Air Force, yet the career field of tax paid professionals was never utilized in this time of disaster. We also have a career field within the Army Active Duty military, dedicated to such problems of communication loss.
I have watched all of our resources go unused, and now I need an answer as to WHY. I can and will point out some very simple solutions to the problems that arose over the last few days, that were never used and our resources sat there wasted while we watched this disaster unfold.
I was but an enlisted member of the United States Air Force, if I could figure out these most simple solutions, WHY did our leadership not utilize them. Surely they have more knowledge then I do.
The Air Force Aerial Delivery career field and the Army Psychological Operations units were never utilized in this great time of need. The Army Psychological Operations unit’s could have quickly fixed the communication problem within the first day to get those people much needed information. This would have prevented much of the looting and cut down on much of the chaos all together, getting the information spread on the ground to the citizens who so desperately needed to know of their worsening conditions.
The lack of communication is the number one problem that caused mass panic and chaos. This problem could have been solved quickly and efficiently from the beginning. The Air Force Aerial Delivery Career field could have utilized all of the resources they have waiting for situations such as this and are fully qualified to make use of in a moments notice.
All I have heard are excuses. “No communications”, “No way to get survival supplies (water, food) where needed”, Helicopters shot at, thus giving reason for why we were seeing little, if no rescue & relief efforts from the start by our Federal Government. Watching and waiting for all of the normal everyday Active Duty Military operational capabilities to kick into effect......I waited in vein.
Active Duty was not called upon by the President of the United States, and without the order to move, nothing could be done by these trained professionals. So they sat at bases across America instead of being called in quickly for relief efforts.
The excuse that we couldn’t get helicopters close enough to bring supplies is a horrible one at that. When we could have easily dropped bundles and pallet loads of bottled water and necessities via low altitude Aerial Delivery airdrops from C-130’s and other military aircraft.
To make it simple, water and supplies are loaded onto a pallet. This pallet has a large parachute attached to it, Air Force pilots have been fully trained to hit a desired target when this cargo pallet is deployed from the back of the aircraft ramp via delivery systems. When dropped, the parachute deploys in the air, causing the pallet to deploy to a desired target based on wind speed and other factors involved. These pallets could have easily been dropped down range of the masses of people who needed these supplies, and the National Guard ground troops could have distributed these supplies accordingly.
The Army’s Psychological Operations career field has expertise in problems such as the loss of ground communications. In war time, Psyop’s
will cut off all enemy communications in a war zone only to then use our own methods of spreading information. They produce paper leaflets which are dropped via air everyday in Iraq. In Iraq we use these leaflets to prevent unnecessary civilian casualty. In this situation we could have quickly produced these leaflets to be dropped, stating simple messages as:
“do not linger in the water it is contaminated, evacuate immediately”
“we have evacuation in progress at this location get there immediately”
“danger more water may rise, evacuate immediately”
“we have food and water for you at this location, get there immediately”
The above are only some examples of the common messages that could have been dropped over the disaster area to fix the communications problem. This is a very common method of communications the Army uses for such situations.
These leaflets could have been produced by the thousands within the first day alone, the resources to create these leaflets is available within the Army Psychological Operations career field, yet they were also not utilized, as I heard excuse after excuse for lack of the “capabilities” to spread information to these people. We very well have the capabilities to spread information during a time of little or no means of communication. This is something we do everyday in Iraq, yet we failed to do it for the well being of our own people.
This spread of information would have cut down on the complete chaos that arose from people who reverted to basic human instinct and survival skills.
I watched as the media blamed them for this. There is no excuse for looting however in a time such as this, that is a poor excuse to draw attention from the main goal at hand, saving the lives of so many innocent people.
This was not a warzone, this was a disaster area, and I watched it portrayed as warzone coverage by our media. With this presentation as such a warzone, due to the horrific events unfolding, Federal government has failed to execute all means and resources we have available to not only save lives but to stop this “warzone” from growing more chaotic.
Now on day four, the media seems more balanced, as the initial media reports about looting added to negative attention drawn upon these American citizens. Calling attention to the negative events that could have been prevented, and lessened by utilizing our Active Military troops from the start.
To focus on looting, although illegal activities, American people were dying in front of our own eyes due to lack of an order from our leadership to take action to stop it all.
I watched the excuses of lack of communications and lack of an “effective way” to get water to these people, when truth be told we have Active Duty military persons who are fully trained and qualified in this relief. That manpower and those resources remained unused yet by the minute, more and more excuses were made for our lack of effort in saving these human beings. I believe the media needed to find reason as to why we had yet to see any action by our federal government. The blame is on our leadership and this administration’s failure and bad decision making, or lack of decision therefore.
I cannot grasp WHY our leaders did not immediately utilized these resources available, that we use daily and were so in close reach to save so many effected by this disaster. I watched as media reports of looting were focused on, all while no order came from our leaders to utilize the Active Duty military (full time) service members. They were not and are still yet to have been called upon.
At first I tried to find reasoning, but as time has gone by I see that this lack of effort and failure to utilize all of the capabilities we have, were a direct and decided move by our leadership. WHY they would decide this, I have still yet to find reason for and am unsure if I will ever be able to understand WHY they decided not to use all the resources our taxes have paid for.
This directly chosen non-action by our leadership, in wake of the American public watching the events unfold in front of them, makes me question their regard for human life all together. The only thing I can figure is that the reason they did not act and put these methods into action were complete and total disregard and/or a decision that sending in Active Duty troops would possible in cause “more important” issues to arise in doing so.
I have only found a few reasons why they would decide not to use our Active Duty troops, and in this, the reasons do not add up to the loss of human life that we are still watching before our eyes.
Some of these reasons include the possibility that our leadership was worried more, that these people would survive and migrate into other nearby states. Possibly causing a chaotic situation to spread. Or very well that they just disregarded those on the Gulf Coast as human beings all together. And lastly, that our leadership may have worried about Active Duty military members stepping into a situation where it was possible for the Mississippi levies to break, causing members of the military to perish.
These reasons that I contemplate, are absolutely beyond the shadow of a doubt, unacceptable. I cannot find other reasons for this lack of action and this is why I am contacting you now.
These are our people, our fellow American’s. I see many issues in this that will arise in time. Racism being very much an issue, thus why I am contacting the NAACP for representation. I am also contacting various other media outlets and organizations so that I can share this information with the American public.
The American public needs to know the truth, they need to understand that we had the resources to help these people within very short distance of the destruction, YET they were not called upon for use.
**I am a Caucasian female and citizen of the United States. I am also a Veteran of the United States Air Force and I will clearly say that this has been an absolute failure of our leadership, and direct insult to not only the American people but to those who take the oath to service this country. I have a heartfelt believe Active Duty military persons were ready, willing, and would have been happy to step into the situation to prevent less casualty.
I question all of the events that I have witnessed and tried to find reason, and while waiting to see the resources used that I know exist, to my ultimate dismay, I did not.
I would like to speak out to the American people. As I stated, I am not an expert, but I am pretty aware and have some basic knowledge of the resources that were not utilized and still YET 4 days later, have still yet to be used to save so many people who have been effected in this disaster.
I can give specifics about equipment, supplies, and manpower that were not utilized. I would like to address any and all people who will listen to what knowledge I have to offer about the ways in which military operations work in this type of situation. It was the career field I was trained and certified in by the United States Armed Forces.
This information needs to be public knowledge as our leadership has completely failed us, and clearly not accidentally, but by their own horrific choice made to not to send Active Duty troops in immediately upon knowledge of the massive destruction.
This is was not just a bad decision but could be considered an attempt at genocide of our own people who inhabit the Gulf Coast.
Please contact me for any further information, [email protected]

Ms. Christine Meyer,
Veteran, United States Air Force

footnote: for anyone who wants to argue that the National Guard does not get deployed overseas but is stictly homeland security: here is your link straight from the Federal Government, please make yourself aware.
“The National Guard can deploy into theater and conduct combat and combat support missions within the normal prescribed timelines given to Active Army units. “
http://carlisle-www.army.mil/ssi/ksil/files/000120.doch...sil/files/0001...

Jud (moderator) said on September 4, 2005 20:11:

I wonder where this ca. million now-homeless people are going to live from now on? And from what? They can’t even go to work.. because work is gone too :S

All the best to them, hope they get the help they need :/

ally77 said on September 4, 2005 20:36:

Looking at the news over here, it’s seems like a nightmare to be living there now, those people have lost everything including family, friends, homes, jobs.... it’s like there whole lives have been wiped out just like that.... it is so sad...

coyboyusa said on September 7, 2005 13:25:

i dunno but if he gets out of hand i personally will take him down to new orleans and force him to live in the convention center with no food or anything for 3 days and let him see what its like

rox-kuryliw said on September 7, 2005 18:25:

*******Just saw on news tonight , showed recoreded footage of 2 devon students that went there for there hols, and showed what they recorded when they were evacutaed to the super dome, looked like hell, they said they could hear people being raped, attacked by gangs, racial threats they where with mosty foreign people who they were there themselves. i was shocked watching it they said all the power went out and the was a huge dome full of people over crowded (people could of been doing anything ) . But as my mum explained to me tonight , it was only about 100 years from slaves and and the deep soulth has always had that problem from what we talked about ect ect. Still very shocking to see on camera.

ally77 said on September 8, 2005 20:55:

Ruddy crazy....

Jud (moderator) said on September 8, 2005 21:50:

something like Federal Emergency Management Agency I think

coyboyusa said on September 8, 2005 22:11:

fema needs to be completetly overhauld. ther epeopel who run it are appointed as political favors, the current head of fema used to run dog shows!!!!!!!!!!!! jesus christ, if americans want to do the world a real favor they should never ever allow anyone from the bush family to hold office ever again. and actually it isn’t necessarily fema that is blocking the aid it is the national homeland security agency under which fema is now a part, pretty damn ignorant, its sad how private companies liek wal-mart and coke a cola have done more thna the feds

LittleSpooky said on September 9, 2005 05:52:

Does anyone remember the passing of the bill that said the government can take land (even if it’s not in disrepair) for whatever bullshit reason they could come up with?

Kiss New Orleans good bye. If you had ever visited the city during Marti Gras and what not... well....

September 9, 2005
Holdouts on Dry Ground Say, ’Why Leave Now?’
By ALEX BERENSON
The New York Times

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 - Ten days ago, the water rose to the front steps of their house. Four days ago, it began falling. But only now is the city demanding that Richie Kay and Emily Harris get out.

They cannot understand why. They live on high ground in the Bywater neighborhood, and their house escaped structural damage. They are healthy and have enough food and water to last almost a year.

They have a dog to protect them, a car with a full tank of gasoline should they need to leave quickly and a canoe as a last resort. They said they used it last week to rescue 100 people.

“We’re not the people they need to be taking out,” Mr. Kay said. “We’re the people they need to be coordinating with.”

Scattered throughout the dry neighborhoods of New Orleans, which are growing larger each day as pumps push water out of the city, are people like Mr. Kay and Ms. Harris. They are defying Mayor C. Ray Nagin’s orders to leave, contending that he will violate their constitutional rights if he forces them out of the homes they own or rent.

“We have food, we have water, we have antibiotics,” said Kenneth Charles Kinler, who is living with four other men on Marais Street, which was covered with almost four feet of water last week but is now dry. “We’re more or less watching the area for looters.”

Mr. Nagin has said the city is not safe for civilians because of the risk of fire and water-borne diseases. There was no official word on Thursday about when the police would start to evict residents forcibly, but officers have been knocking on doors to plead with people to leave on their own.

“Unless you have enough food or water for three weeks, you’re a walking dead man,” Sgt. George Jackson told holdouts on the northern edge of the city on Thursday afternoon.

To reduce the risk of violent confrontation, the police began confiscating firearms on Thursday, even those legally owned.

To be sure, many of the thousands of people remaining in New Orleans want to leave, especially in neighborhoods where the water continues to stand several feet deep. Hundreds of people a day are being ferried to the convention center by National Guard troops in five-ton trucks and then bused outside the city.

Some holdouts may change their minds as their food and water run out. Some appear mentally incompetent or have houses in severely flooded neighborhoods and are staying in the city in the mistaken hope that they will be able to go home in a few days.

But thousands more do not fall in any of those categories. They are sitting on dry ground with all their belongings and plenty of provisions. They say they want to stay to help rebuild their city and maybe earn some money doing it, because they have animals they are afraid to leave behind, or to protect their property or simply because they have always lived here and see no reason to move their lives to a motel room in Houston or San Antonio.

Billie Moore, who lives in an undamaged 3,000-square-foot house on the city’s southwestern flank that also stayed dry, said she did not want to lose her job as a pediatric nurse at the Ochsner Clinic in Jefferson Parish, which continues to function.

“Who’s going to take care of the patients if all the nurses go away?” Ms. Moore asked.

When police officers arrived at her house to warn of the health risks of remaining, she showed them her hospital identification card.

“I guess you know the health risks then,” the officer said.

Ms. Moore and her husband, Richard Robinson, have been using an old gas stove to cook pasta and rice, dumping cans of peas on top for flavor.

“We try to be normal and sit down and eat,” Ms. Moore, 52, said. “I think that how we’ll stay healthy is if I keep the house clean.”

Power remains out in most of the city, and even where the tap water is flowing, it is not drinkable. Bathing and using the toilet are daily challenges. Many residents are siphoning water from swimming pools and fountains.

Some holdouts seem intent on keeping alive the distinct and wild spirit of this city. In the French Quarter, Addie Hall and Zackery Bowen found a unusual way to make sure that police officers regularly patrolled their house. Ms. Hall, 28, a bartender, flashed her breasts at the police vehicles that passed by, ensuring a regular flow of traffic.

On Thursday morning on St. Claude Avenue, a commercial strip in Bywater, east of downtown, about 12 people congregated inside and in front of Kajun’s Pub, drinking and smoking. Inside, the bar looked dank, but a fan swirled air overhead and a television set in the corner showed local news, both fired by the bar’s portable generator.

“New Orleans has been my home for 20 years,” said Kenny Dobbs, who celebrated his 35th birthday at the bar after the flood. “I’ve been on my own since I was 14.”

Like other people, Mr. Dobbs said, he believed that the city had exaggerated the health risks of staying, as a scare tactic. The city simply wants to force people out so that its reconstruction will go more smoothly, he said.

“Why do you think they’re evacuating people?” he asked. “So they don’t have as much to deal with.”

The police and federal law enforcement officials have depicted many of those staying as looters waiting to pounce, though the holdouts said that they were actually protecting their neighborhoods from crime and that their steady presence is a greater deterrent than the occasional police patrol.

While residents and some legal experts question the constitutionality of forced evacuations, those staying have no functioning courthouse in the city to hear their complaints, and no state or federal authorities have stepped in to stop the plan.

In general, residents say the active-duty soldiers and National Guard troops had treated them well. Local police officers, many of them working for almost two weeks straight and having lost families or possessions, have been much more aggressive, Mr. Dobbs said.

Two New Orleans police officers stole $50 and a bottle of whiskey from him last week after finding him on the street after dark, he said.

With police officers and federal law enforcement agents ratcheting up the pressure on residents to leave, the holdouts worry that it is just a matter of time before they are forced out.

Ms. Harris said she did not want to leave. “I haven’t even run out of weed yet,” she said.

But she knows that fighting with police officers is futile.

“I’ll probably bitch and moan, but I’m not going to hole up,” she said.

And by Thursday afternoon, Kajun’s Pub had closed, and the vehicles previously parked outside were gone.

There was no indication whether Mr. Dobbs and the other people who had been drinking and joking six hours earlier had been evacuated or simply disappeared into the city.

Jodi Wilgoren contributed reporting for this article.

Santi said on September 9, 2005 15:11:

Let’s see how long it takes for some Al-Qaida spokesbastard (sorry :)) to say that this is Allah’s revenge on the invasion of Iraq and that more disasters will affect the USA as long as their troops don’t leave muslim ground.

ally77 said on September 9, 2005 21:33:

Nice Santi!

coyboyusa said on September 19, 2005 12:59:

emil if thats the case then china shouydl be getting hit with tons and tons of tsunamis n junk they r the 2nd biggest polluters in the wrold

Emil__BG said on September 20, 2005 18:32:

coy–you know ==the nature see and hit the biggest ones ;

harriej - few days ago i download a doc film about fight with sea in holland..
big HURRAH for them!!!

coyboyusa said on September 23, 2005 20:20:

LOL omg