Kama said on November 3, 2004 14:29:

I wouldbn’t compare Marie’s and Per’s music. They both do pop - rock, but Marie has her own style, own vision of music and style. Per has also his way of writing music and also his own vision and style.
And thanx God it is this way!
One fan likes more Marie’s view other likes Per’s. And there’s nothing to discuss anymore. As somebody said it’s a matter of taste.
I’m the lucky one who belongs to fans who love both of solo stuff : Marie and Per. And I’m really happy when they mix it together in a thing called Roxette :)

Jud (moderator) said on November 3, 2004 16:39:

well I am also a Marie fan, started as a Roxette but then it turned into 1)Marie 2)GT 3)Rox 4)Per (to kind of sort the Rox related artists).

I, of course, don’t like everything the above artists do. And I have a (simple?) way to kinda check if I like something or not: it makes me shiver or cry (because what I hear is so beautiful) .. then I love it ;)

I don’t like everything Marie does, of course, I really dislike “ett hus vid havet” for example, “den bästa dagen”. Actually D7V is my least fave album and my fave are DSR, IETSV and TC.. I love her voice, her music, her lyrics..

I like GT, I prefer their 3 first albums, the 96 EP and the new tracks from 95 most. Then comes F5f and last Heartland. I think they rock and the way I enjoy their music is different to the way i do enjoy Marie’s. Marie’s gets deep in my soul, my heart.. GT is like the funny side.

Rox: I enjoy anything before HAND and RS (with exceptions). I think the last stuff is just the “remake of Roxette” over and over again, lacks inspiration and lust and imagination and everything.

PG: I like his first 2 solo albums and TWATG half half. Now we come to Mazarin. I think M is just a compilation of all that what I don’t like about Rox + the stuff I least like of GT recycled and put in a “fresh” way. I really gave it a try but i simply don’t like it. Must be the Rox related album I have played the least (besides the Balladas so go figure). There are some exceptions, maybe 3. That you like it, fine with me, I won’t change my mind ;)

Maybe I have grown up (?) and now I prefer deeper lyrics, deeper songs with feelings. I guess that if you know what my other fave artists are (besides Marie, Eva and Melissa) you will see what I mean, so it’s like Per stuff is fun for a while but then it gets too much.

Anyway, enjoy whatever you enjoy, I will go on enjoying what I enjoy :P

Kiwein1 said on November 3, 2004 17:07:

Well, first of all I have been a Roxette fan and in my heart I still am - but I have to agree with Judith: Rox songs got worse with every album, though HAND is my fav, but there really is to mention a lack of quality, Room Service is just BAD and BORING..*yawn*

I have always been a fan of Marie, first not so much of her solo music, but of her appearance, her voice mainly and everything she IS. It took a while to UNDERSTAND her music, it took LONG to understand it. But if you have understood once you simply LOVE it and cannot stop listening to it. And I love her way of changing her style again and again. I am happy that she doesn’t do this powerpop stuff that Per does. She isn’t into that and that is good!

Per - well, I love Mazarin and yeah I do love parts of TWATG, but in the end, many songs sound the same and the older he gets the worse are the songs. It’s a pity. Maybe he can regain some energy and bring us some GREAT stuff next year or in 2006. But I don’t want another Mazarin, then part III it would be.

About GT: the tour has been great, though I loved the Mazarin tour more. I love especially the old stuff. I can tell you: hearing that in a disco at our party: IT ROCKS and you can’t help BUT DANCE YOUR ASS OFF! FFF is boring and doesn’t really sound like GT, it’s really like Mazarin II.

In the end, I really would look forward to a new Roxette album, but I doubt that we will get one. Per and Marie together are magic, they always have been - it’s Per’s turn to write some GOOD stuff again, like I’m sorry, FLAF, SMT, LTYH, CBB or SIMC.

Sparvogamarie said on November 3, 2004 17:24:

Like I said before, Per has written some GREAT songs and he continues to. But I feel with Per, that he’s the sort of person that once he got some success with one thing, he just kept doing that one thing over and over. That’s not necessarily a bad thing I guess, because I think Tuffa Tider is such a cute song and I always bop along when I hear it. So it’s not that I’m trying to tear down his music cos I like it and I wouldn’t want him to quit. But I think some Rox fans have become narrow minded when it comes to music because after hearing such similar stuff for so long there seem to be a lot of ppl who just flat refuse to accept something different!

When The Change came out I was so hoping for DSR II, but when I heard it I was like “what is this??” But because I love Marie so much I wanted to try to understand the album so I kept listening. And I found that this album is really something different, you kind of have to “unwrap” it to discover it. Someone said on the other topic that “at least you don’t have to listen to GT 10000 times to like it.” But I think it can be really good to open your mind to something new, not just listen to something you like. If you ate the same food every day, you would never know that there were actually other foods you like. It’s the same with music, you really miss out if you ignore something just because it’s different from your normal tastes!

Jud (moderator) said on November 3, 2004 17:49:

yes of course Per has done some great stuff :)

Jud (moderator) said on November 3, 2004 19:39:

LOL Sparv!!! The song might have been written before she got cancer! :P

Rich-UK said on November 3, 2004 20:29:

Hi Folks! If I had to choose then I’d say that I also prefer Per’s music to Marie’s music, but I love them both. Personally, I find the Mazarin vs. FFF debate interesting, not least because my opinions on the albums have changed with time. Like some people before me, I’d like to discuss it – *all* of the following is just my opinion ;-)

I think that Mazarin is really special: a strong album packed full of good quality songs. I don’t like them all, and still don’t really go for HKAK even though I see its appeal, but there are some gems, e.g. Födelsedag, Om Du Bara Vill and Spegelboll. More than simply the songs on the album, I adored the whole Mazarin experience: the release party, meeting Per for the first time, the album, then the marvellous tour. I was less impressed with FFF when I first got it, and thought that Per needed a break to write great songs instead of good songs. My main criticism was that FFF felt like Mazarin II rather than a distinct GT album. But now after the fantastic GT25 tour, meeting the band, then several months of listening to the album, I appreciate the strength and depth of FFF, and admit to a change of heart. I am now sure that FFF is the equal of Mazarin, and I get a lot of enjoyment from them both. Again, I’m not struck on all of the songs, but there are many gems, e.g. Solsken, Speciell and Du Måste Skämta, and I’m awaiting the GT25 CD & DVD with anticipation. All in all, 2 great albums and 2 great tours masterminded by my King of pop...

I respect different opinions, but (please forgive me) I admit that I find it a little strange when I hear “I like Mazarin but not FFF” or “I like FFF but not Mazarin”, the reason being that I don’t think the albums are particularly dissimilar! I can’t help feeling that if someone were to reject one of the albums and not listen to it, then they may be missing out on some tracks that they would have come to love with more time. But maybe it’s not worth the perseverance. There are differences between the two albums, sure, e.g. I can see why some people don’t like Helena’s voice, which makes it hard to like all of the songs on Mazarin, and I can see why some people find FFF as a whole boring, seeing as it’s not completely different from an album the year before involving the same song-writer, same singer and same producers. Anyway, I guess I’d love everyone to be able to get as much out of the two albums as I have, but I do appreciate that we’re all different.

Well, those are my thoughts on that particular ’contest’. There’s no contest for me though because I think that Mazarin and FFF are both wonderful - oh, and (to keep it strictly on-topic) Marie’s new album is very good too - I like everything! Enjoy ;-) All the best, Rich

Rich-UK said on November 3, 2004 22:42:

Hi Kiwein1! :) I do get what you mean - and I agree with you to a large extent! I’m just curious about this ‘cos I’m interested in why people prefer one album to the other, as I think they’re really similar in style, and I now (personally) like them both a lot (and because I had nothing to do earlier this evening so I thought I’d be awkward!). Hey, although you think the FFF tracks are weaker, do you think you would have given them more time if they had been released in a ‘Mazarin II’ where your objection to their sound would be removed? I’m just being nosey - forgive me! He he... all the best, Rich ;-)

Vixzter said on November 3, 2004 23:11:

for me its weird....i connect (to what i seriously don’t know!!!) more to marie’s music than i ever have done to firstly pers solo stuff and secoundly GT.
i havent got a clue what any of them are singing about half the time anyways ;)

tjej said on November 4, 2004 01:00:

Mazarin is THE most Swedish record Per ever made.

@Judith: Not being Swedish might decrease your understanding of it... It takes some effort to understand the Swedish soul. Maybe effort is the wrong word. Empathy.

Hotblooded said on November 4, 2004 05:12:

Interesting topic Sparvoga :)

Well I have to say I belong to the group of people who are lucky enough to enjoy both Marie, Per, GT and Rox music! Although over the years the order in which I like this music has drastically changed.

I would have to say that Marie would sit at the top of my list. I haven’t heard the change yet (waiting to get it still) but I really liked 2:nd chance so....

OK anyway i am the first to admit she doesn’t have the most instant kind of songs like Per does but they are the kind of songs that if given half a chance really begin to grow on you and find a place in your heart (I believe the only time you can really give something a go is when it is at least in your musical style, your ’taste’ obviously if you hate death metal for example it doesn’t matter how many listens you give a death metal album chances are your just never gonna like it!)

My first Marie album was DSR and it took a while to get it and the fact that it was in Swedish and I didn’t understand a word didn’t help but then it just grew on me and I could feel the passion, the energy coming from Marie and that for me is what music should do and it didn’t matter that I didn’t understand it it felt like and still is a quality album. If I pop it on today I still get the same feelings and can listen to every songs and feel as though it is a journey I’m on. For me that is when you know it is a great album.

You see when I first got Room Service or HAND after the second listen i was like jumping up with joy at how great the songs were but that wore off and now I will rarely listen to those albums as a whole mostly just a few songs and really that is what Roxette’s music is. 10 years ago I would never have thought like this but as you get older I think you start to appreciate music that is more personal, more from the heart and not just manufactured and cold as the last two Rox albums were.

As far as Per goes well I loved Mazarin and TWATG, both great albums especially Mazarin and that’s probably Per’s best ’quality’ album definitely has more heart behind it then brain. GT have always been so so with me, I was not impressed with FFF at all at first and only gave it one listen and left it for a while but came back to it and listened to it more and I started to get the songs but definitely not a ’classic’ album. I think the songs of GT have a great energy ’live’ which is why they are so popular in concert even though I have never seen them ;)

I also agree that it really depends on what mood you are in at the time as to whether or not you will like an album because I have had several albums that I have brought and not liked only for them months or even years down the track to suddenly get a new lease on them and become fav’s so you never know!

I guess in rankings as of today it would be:

Marie, Per, Rox,GT.

Vixzter said on November 4, 2004 06:46:

Mazarin i can play all the way thru, FFF is victim of the skip button ;-)

Vixzter said on November 4, 2004 10:11:

depends on what point of view u look at it from, i love it ;) so to me its good ;P

Sparvogamarie said on November 4, 2004 17:57:

Jud: I don’t care if the song was written before she got cancer, he should still stop WHINING about his stupid girlfriend and making poor Marie sit there in the middle of the night while he gets drunk and bitches about his lame ass girlfriend who was probably ugly anyway. Poor Marie had to listen to so much CRAP about it that she actually wrote a much too high-pitched song about him to fill in the many hours that she had to listen to his bloody miserable sob story. She was probably hoping the April Snow will BURY him and make him SHUT UP about the stupid girlfriend and give her a friggin BREAK from his incessant WHINGING and MOANING like he’s the first bloody person in the whole friggin world that ever got friggin dumped. Plenty more fish in the sea and all that. So there.

Talking about April Snow btw for confused ppls who didn’t read above :)

I think I’m getting cynical in my old age...

Sparvogamarie said on November 4, 2004 18:46:

OAM: Somewhere above I wrote that I hate April Snow because it’s about a guy whose girlfriend dumped him and he’s keeping Marie up all night drinking wine and whining about it. I said that he was wasting Marie’s time when she has cancer, but Jud said maybe it was before the cancer. I still wanna slap this guy for complaining so much, everyone gets dumped in their life, get over it!

Hope that explains it ;)

Kiwein1 said on November 4, 2004 20:11:

“And to choose between Per´s songs is impossible. I still haven‘t heard a bad song from him. Have you?”

Oooooooooh yes! ;)

Jud (moderator) said on November 5, 2004 12:39:

Ok, I listened to Mazarin again, conclusions:

- doesn’t sound like F5f
- Tracks I didn’t skip: 3, 6, 8, 9, 11
- I still don’t like it / it still gets on my nerves.
- CD goes back to the shelve to stay there for years to come ;)

—-
“And to choose between Per´s songs is impossible. I still haven‘t heard a bad song from him. Have you?”

Do I have to list them all? ;)

Sparvogamarie said on November 5, 2004 16:04:

I actually bought Finn Fem Fel Today, second hand for 30 sek hehe! I’ll pay full price for Marie but not Per haha! I haven’t actually listened to it but I will tonight so I can give a proper opinion if it sounds like Mazarin (which I just finished listening to) or not.

James made a great comment, that it doesn’t matter if you don’t like the solo stuff as long as you like Rox, totally agree! But the reason I started this topic is there’s been a LOT of Marie bashing going around and I was really curious to hear from other fans why ppl don’t like her solo & also why most fans seem to prefer Per, when honestly he has become very repetitive lately. I thought it was weird that so many ppl couldn’t accept The Change for being so different, yet they are willing to swallow the same thing over and over from Per!

Sparvogamarie said on November 5, 2004 16:28:

I kind of think of Per as McDonalds and Marie as a 5 star restaurant. McDonalds food tastes pretty good and all, but the menu is very simple, it’s always the same wherever you go and when you buy McDonalds food you know exactly what you’re getting. Marie on the other hand has a bigger variety on her “menu”, there are some things that seem unusual and you will try and not like the first time...but if you eat at the 5 star restaurant you will be getting quality and at McDonalds you’re getting sugar filled junk that tastes good but does nothing for you!!

RoXoR said on November 5, 2004 17:57:

i think thats it!

Sparvogamarie said on November 5, 2004 18:41:

Tjej: I agree with you that cultures have their own ways and differences, but what I’m saying is that spirit and soul are the same wherever you go. I don’t have to be Swedish to understand that Marie is angry at her boyfriend in Vem tror du att du är, or that she’s searching her soul in Den Ständiga Resan. Music is a universal language, so is love, hurt, loss, joy etc.

Jud (moderator) said on November 5, 2004 22:06:

well what should I understand about Mazarin then? and what should this be different to Marie’s music who is also Swedish? Why do I prefer DSR or IETSV (to talk about albums in Swedish) to Mazarin? Might be because I prefer songs that do tell something? that talk about feelings? Ain’t it Swedish enough to talk about rain and autumn and all that? ;) And how could I like Eva with her complicated way of writing and thinking or even read books and poems by Swedish authors if I am not supposed to understand what is sung/written about? Or why could I like GT - can it get more Swedish? Or why are there very few Spanish artists that I like, even though they are supposed to sing about “my culture”? ;)

I don’t think culture has anything to do with liking an album or not. As I said before, my guide is simple: the album reaches/touches my heart/soul - I like it. Even though I prefer “deep” music, it doesn’t have to be always about deep feelings - it just has to have something, I guess it’s like falling in love, there’s always that *click* - just that with music you can have more “lovers” at once ;)

Btw, Sparv: I hate McDonalds :D

Zargo said on November 6, 2004 07:04:

@Sparvogamarie

I hate McDonalds, but the analogy is very suitable...

I listen to stuff like DSR very irregularly and quite enjoy in a low key way, but I don’t want to be hanging around for ages for each course to come along at the 5-star restaurant -
I prefer to wander in to to somewhere casual, pay a few dollars and get some instant bliss :)

AURYTE said on November 6, 2004 10:50:

I always supported PER & MARIE as solo artists equally. But my biggest passion goes for THEM BOTH TOGETHER - for ROXETTE.

Jud (moderator) said on November 6, 2004 16:25:

can we change the McD for a PizzaHut in my case? ;)

Ok, let’s say McD = Mazarin for me, I only like a couple of things from there and not very often :D

RoXoR said on November 6, 2004 18:31:

@per_mson

to hate something is realy hard and something you should handle carefully!
I dont know why you can say that you hate the change, but you will have your reasons.
I cant say that i hate music but that i dislike music.

AntiMario said on November 6, 2004 21:12:

@per_mson: you forgot to mention dansbands as well? ;)

Hotblooded said on November 7, 2004 01:45:

@Tjej: I’m sorry but that is total bullshit. Marie’s voice is not a mess! She is still one of the finest vocalists I have ever heard, maybe she doesn’t sing as well as she did in the late 80’s early 90’s but her voice is still better then so many and I’d sign her on the spot if I had a record label :)

per_mson said on November 7, 2004 12:59:

@tjej: First of all I don’t think you have to be Swedish to be able to know the concept of a Swedish summer. It is not so different from the rest of Europe. I am Swedish and have lived in Sweden for 27 years (even in Halmstad for 9 years). Right now I live in Austria since two years back and I don’t think the concept summer is at all different here from Sweden. Since it is Judith you are telling all the time she has no clue about “Swedish summer” I can tell you (since she is my friend) that she know much more about Sweden and its culture than many other Europeans do. So if any none Swede here would know the concept (as you call it) it is her. So if Judith now don’t like Mazarin.. well, then let her think so!! I don’t like The Change and I hope that is ok as well. Isn’t that pretty natural in the end that people don’t like the same stuff?!?!?!

When it comes to Marie’s voice I think you are way out in the blue. Marie still has a great voice and I don’t believe for a minute that they have manipulated it with electronics. If you listen to the rest of the album you can clearly hear that they have not put too much effort into the sound, so why would they fix that much with her voice? It is after all the best there is on the album anyway (IMHO).

I do, however, agree with you that one can’t really compare food places with music.

@Antimario: Hehe, yeah Swedish “dansband” suck, but it is still better than Hip-Hop! ;-)

ljus said on November 7, 2004 15:06:

there you go... another flamer has arrived... what I like to point out about Marie’s voice (not for the flamer, but everyone else interested) is two things. That I like her timbre, the way she sounds and sings, that is of course totally subjective and a personal thing. That’s why I said, I’m sure other people will even prefer Per’s voice or find it suitable for his kind of music.

I’ve been trained in classical music (singing) for the past 10 years, so I believe I know what I’m speaking about. What’s very good about Marie, is that she has a very musical ear and only very seldomly is out of tune (a thing that happens to Alanis Morissette, Annie Lennox and Per quite often in live concerts...) I can’t recall any live recording or bootleg where Marie is out of tune. (which doesn’t mean that her voice always sounds good)

I like the way she makes use of her head and chest voice and is able to have these little nuances, like in Table in the sun, where it sounds really soft and fragile, as opposed to the edgier louder stuff, where she just has a go at it (April Snow - end).

I believe her technique (or her natural way of singing) is not the best though, and that’s why she sometimes sounds a bit hoarse, especially after or during a long tour (like the äntligen-tour)... I wonder if she still takes singing lessons now or then or whether she ever took any...

from what I heard from The Change (still waiting for the cd to arrive) I was quite impressed. 2nd chance sounds a bit wobbly (voice-wise), but then everything sounds kind of wobbly (just listen to the guitars!!!) so even if it was not on purpose it suits the song and her situation I guess. To be honest, I was very surprised to hear her voice sounding so strong in the other snippets, since she was really really ill and it’s not easy at all to sing like she did when physically and mentally you have to fight such a desease. So thumbs up up up!!! for having achieved all this! I feel very happy about it, and no matter, if I will actually like the music, it’s amazing that she came back the way she did.

So Sparv... judging from the snippets, I also have the feeling, well that some of the songs are not as personal (lyric-wise, musically) as they could have been (or like dsr)... but maybe we’re wrong in a way and the most personal aspect about it is that SHE IS SINGING and is singing FOR her life on this record (rather than about it - which she does in a couple of songs anyway)... apart from the lyrical and self-reflecting aspect, much of it for Marie was probably a physical thing... to stand on her feet again, open up and sing...

I guess if she recovers and feels even stronger again, there might be the time for another album, which becomes even more intimate lyrically or musically speaking...

uuuuuuuuuh... such a long post... sorry folks... :)

ljus said on November 7, 2004 15:11:

Marie’s live performance of Sa skimrande var aldrig havet made my boyfriend (who doesn’t listen to her or knows her particularily well) cry, when he accidentally heard it in my flat... now if a voice or performance can do that... i guess that speaks for itself.

ljus said on November 7, 2004 15:21:

I think her voice was best in the early 90-ies (Joyride, Den ständiga Resan, CBB)... you’re also right that her voice is deeper now... on the positive side that means that it sounds much fuller (i mean listen to her early Swedish recordings or early Roxette... very girlish and sometimes over the top ;)!

Sparvogamarie said on November 7, 2004 15:25:

Ljus: don’t worry about long posts, I find your comments very interesting!

About Marie’s voice: She occasionally misses a note or wobbles a bit...but I find that natural and a bit of imperfection can make something more interesting.

About not understanding another culture: those comments are bullsh*t plain and simple. Sweden has it’s own culture but everyone in the country is not exactly the same. So just being Swedish doesn’t mean you will understand every other Swede just like I don’t understand every Aussie. I also don’t carry koalas, ride kangaroos or listen to Kylie. And Judith doesn’t dance flamenco ;)

Like Jud said, this topic has been very civilized until now and I personally really enjoy the different opinions. Even if someone is saying something I disagree with, such as The Change sucks or whatever, it’s interesting to hear how we all listen to the same thing but we all find something different in it, positive or negative. So I am choosing to ignore any flames and hope that they burn out.

Sparvogamarie said on November 7, 2004 15:36:

I don’t want this so far intelligent conversation to degenerate, so I am ignoring the fire in the corner and holding my fire extinguisher!

I want to go back to Ljus’ comment at the top of this page: yes you’re right, the album is not as personal as I hoped. As I’ve said a few times, I was hoping for DSR II, meaning that I wished for an album where every song is like reading Marie’s diary. I really wanted to try to understand Marie’s pain, struggle and fear but there’s really only 3 songs on the album that deal with that. I actually don’t like it that Micke wrote half the album. It was interesting to hear his opinion but I would have preferred those songs as B-sides or even if he made an album and sang them himself. It seems weird to hear Marie singing HIS feelings and talking about being scared of losing herself!! So in that way I was really disappointed in The Change. I guess we have the documentary to hear about her feelings, but it’s not the same as putting on a CD and being carried away into Marie’s world for an hour. Like you said, maybe in the future she will release something with some more personal songs. I imagine the really deep stuff would have been written in Swedish, if she did write something.

Oh, and you asked if she took singing lessons...she studied music for 3 years and I believe she was studying to be a singing teacher at one point, so yes she has been professionally trained.

Sparvogamarie said on November 7, 2004 16:01:

I don’t have any problem with different opinions, I only have a problem with people who attack things and people in a really negative way. But I think it’s nice to hear different views and to find out what others are thinking. I’m not one to say you have to like everything Marie/Rox/Per/GT do. I’m a huge fan of Marie but I really dislike some of her songs, eg. April Snow, and most of Den Sjunde Vågen. Some people would say you’re not a real fan if you don’t love everything, but I think it’s mindless to just love whatever crap Marie or Per produce!

ljus said on November 7, 2004 17:37:

sparv... don’t be disappointed !!! oh thank god she’s alive!!! that counts!

also, i can imagine that if you experience such a situation like hers, its difficult to find words at all... it’s not a primarily mental thing (like her feeling depressed during the Joyride-years and then putting out an album who deals with it), but a harsh fight between life and death. Maybe this time it was not about expressing herself through words and music, but doing music, working on songs (with her husband) to keep alive and survive. I mean, look at the pictures she draw. I sent the 2nd chance cover to a friend of mine who doesn’t like Roxette and never really connected to Marie F or her music, but she was so shocked and touched by that drawing and said she really wishes Marie all the best and hope she gets cured. So maybe the drawings this time are the key to her heart and mind this time... her way of expressing things and feelings that cannot be put into words or music...

also, I dont think that because you haven’t written a song you can’t make it to one of your own! sa skimrande was not written by Marie, but she connects with it and through it she makes other people connect with her and the music... also, we don’t know how the songs happen to come into place... maybe they co-wrote much of it, but Marie wanted her husband to get the attention and credit he deserved... for example if the song really was about Marie’s mother (something we have to be very careful to jump into conclusion) and Marie talked to her husband about it and he writes a song from her perspective for her... i think that’s almost as personal...

though I prefer if artists write songs themselves...

just saying...

but please no disappointment :))))))))))))))!!!!!! (i know what you meant though)

Anbo said on November 7, 2004 21:41:

I have to agree with tjej, at least on some points. (I haven’t listen to The Change, so I cannot comment on the voice topic, (though I always liked Per’s voice better)).

I really don’t beleive that a tour like the GT25 tour would have been possible in any other country. (And that is not just because they sing in swedish - thank’s for the sensible comment...). Gyllene Tider sold 500.000 tickets, that’s more than one ticket per 20 inhabitants. In a country like Germany this would mean selling 5 million tickets , or for Spain it would add up to 2.5 million tickets. Do you really think this will ever happen or has ever happened?

The key to Gyllene Tider’s succes is that they reach such a broad audience. No matter what music you listen to during the rest of the year, in the summer you sing along to Gyllene Tider songs - age 12 or age 65. There is something special about Swedes and the “swedish summer” and Gyllene are strongly connected to it. (Try selling out a GT-winter-tour...). I don’t know if you have to be born here to understand it, but you must definitely have lived here at least one summer to get it. (I cannot see anything racist in this statement. And by the way, this is a forum to discuss music, not a place to insult people by calling them a racist. Think first, write then!!!!)

In my opinion it is pointless to campare Marie and Gyllene Tider. OK, I guess Gyllene Tider would not win a prize for “advanced chords” or “innovative arrangements” (Marie probably wouldn’t either...). But that is not the point. Music is more than that, it is also about touching people, reaching people and about how many you reach. Gyllene Tider’s music does just that and so did the Mazarin-album. And I understand why. If you don’t, that may be due to your personal taste or because of you not being swedish or whatever.

Stop comparing: MARIE IS A SINGER AND SONGWRITER, GYLLENE TIDER IS A PHENOMENON!!!

ljus said on November 7, 2004 22:04:

anbo i think people in this discussion are only comparing in the sense what makes them different and how they enjoy gyllene or per or marie differently... i think you’re right that it doesnt make sense to say he is better than her or vice versa, but i find it interesting how people on this forum relate to rox, marie, per or gyllene... it’s a fine line to discuss something like that cause its much about personal taste and therefore very easy to get angry, frustrated, insulted... personally, i really enjoy this discussion... you saying that you like per’s voice better... the way you said it... that’s fine. so, we’re sharing thoughts and impressions... also the way you explained the phenomena... thats interesting and i think its a good point (the analogy with the 5 mill Germans going to a concert!)... maybe sparv. wanted to get away from the bashing threads about marie and per and i think most of this discussion has been civilised... and thats cool...

Sparvogamarie said on November 8, 2004 14:53:

Hotblooded: Thankyou, ANALOGY is exactly the word for the comparision between McDonalds and Per. Obviously most ppl understood that and got the meaning, but there’s always a few slow ones in every group, eh?

Ljus: you said it perfectly. It’s nice to discuss the differences and make comparisons without the usual fighting that breaks out. Per and Marie are in a band together, so it’s inevitable that we’re going to compare them. I could also sit here and compare Marie to Britney or Madonna if I wanted to, this is an open forum! This particular topic is about comparing the different styles of Marie, Per and GT and discussing what we like or dislike about them. If Anbo or anyone else don’t like that, there are 1000 other threads they can look at. I’ve never understood people who post in a thread to tell everyone to stop talking about that subject!

Anbo: The number of tickets GT sold is not the point, the point was that Tjej said non-swedes couldn’t really understand the music. That’s got absolutely nothing to do with the tour. I have a real problem with someone who says a different race or culture can’t understand something. I did not call Tjej a racist, I said I find her VIEWS bigoted and racist. BIG difference there, and I stand by my comment because I believe her views are narrow minded. YES Sweden has their own culture, I LIVE here so I know that, but you can’t tell people they have to be Swedish to understand the music, it’s exactly the same as telling a black person they can’t understand white music.

Jud: You don’t want Marie to look like Marilyn Manson? Well actually their new album covers are very similar!!! In Mega they put the promo posters of The Change next to MM’s new album, both covers are self portraits and both drawn themselves as monsters. It’s quite weird that they have done the same thing!

Sparvogamarie said on November 8, 2004 16:00:

I disagree. One culture saying that another culture doesn’t understand something is racist in my view. Or at least bigoted, if you would prefer that word. In the end racism is one group saying they are better than another group - what’s the difference?

Anyway this topic is not about racism and as I said I’m ignoring the stupid comments. BACK TO MARIE...or Per, but I’d rather Marie :)
Hotblooded: great that you finally got the album, I can’t imagine how you waited so long! Cool that you liked it first time, I was one of the ones that had to listen a few times to get used to the different styles. And some songs you really have to listen to the lyrics, such as Mother, though that song is weird because it seems so personal to Marie but is written by Micke! I’m always wondering if he wrote it for her or if it’s written about his own mother. I guess it must be for Marie if it’s on her album.

Ok I’ll be fair and talk about Per too. I’ve been listening to FFF and it’s a really cool album! Can’t stop bopping along to it! I mean, sure Per writes similar stuff over and over but at least it’s good stuff! FFF and The Change actually compliment each other very well by being total opposites. Depending on your mood you can be serious with Marie or just have fun with Per!

AURYTE said on November 8, 2004 22:02:

Personally, I don’t understand why all the people out there are attackink tjej... It’s just an opinion. And I think MARIE can be so popular almost just in Sweden (or Scandinavian countries) where people like non-radio friendly music.

Hotblooded said on November 9, 2004 03:29:

@tjej: I have always thought Marie sounded better live then she did on record that doesn’t mean ’perfect’ but simply that I prefer her ’live’ voice then on the records but then that’s just my opinion ;)

@Sparv: Yeah I don’t know how I waited sooo long! But I’m so glad I got it in fact I’m off to listen to it again now :) Lucky you in Sweden who gets to watch the doco on Nov 24th!

ncurran said on November 9, 2004 17:08:

well voices are a matter of taste....i think marie sounds much better than Mariah, Celine and Whitney put together....but that is not based on their technical voice qualities like you said above, but purely the rawness and emotion in her voice. Listen to Celine Dion, and sure she is talented, but i think with singers like her they show off their vocal ability too much and there isnt enough raw feeling in there...well for me anyway.

Vixzter said on November 9, 2004 17:24:

her voice fits the stuff she sings perfectly

Sparvogamarie said on November 9, 2004 17:51:

ncurran: You are exactly right. Celine Dion has what I would call a perfect voice, but perfect isn’t necessarily a good thing because missed notes and vocal cracks make it real and interesting. I do think she sings with feeling especially songs like A New Day which are personal to her, but she doesn’t write her own music so she’s not on the same level with singers who write their stuff, especially really personal songs. I like to hear a song and say “Oh she wrote that about her ex-boyfriend” or “this song is about Marie’s daughter” or whatever. So to bring it back to the comparison between Marie and Per, the reason I prefer Marie is that her songs are real and most of Per’s are about imaginary situations, except perhaps for I Was So Lucky.

ljus said on November 9, 2004 18:34:

hehe voice discussion again ;)

technically speaking, celine’s voice is not perfect, I think, since it sounds too much in the throat and back of her mouth (to me it sounds as if she has swallowed a potato - :) ... but it’s also a matter of taste of course... even with opera singers you get so-called experts ;) who argue for one or the other voice and different techniques...

what annoys me though a little is people believing that being a good singer means to hit high notes...

with Marie... what I’ve been wondering most is ’Sa skimrande’ live... it’s a really long way to go before the synth. sets in... so I wonder if technically the synth. responds to where Marie after that minute or so lands with her voice or if she has perfect pitch (as it seems) which would support my statement that her intonation (accuracy of pitch) is very good... anyone knows about it?!?

alanis, who i like very much, is quite bad in this respect. if you listen to uninvited on the Unplugged cd you can clearly hear it...

anyway, i just find it funny to talk about it...

e.g. on The Change you can hear at least two cuts where they didn’t do a good job in the studio and you can hear how they put two takes together... :)!

ljus said on November 9, 2004 19:00:

my oh my how i would love an intimate gig with Marie
:)

i once had the chance to go to a promotional concert (6 songs) of Tori Amos in Vienna. it was just her and the grand piano and 70 people sitting a few metres away... although it only lasted about half an hour it was one of the most magical moments in my life (especially since she presented material noone had heard before)

Chaghi said on November 9, 2004 19:09:

Oh! “Så skimrande...” in the CD/DVD Äntligen tour is just... PERFECT. It’s so deep, so emotional. You know, I’m one of those guys who judges a song mainly through the music. If I don’t like the music, I don’t care about the lyrics. But there are exceptions. And *this* particular version of “Så skimrande...” is one of the best examples. I love both the music and the lyrics in that song, but I think the way Marie sang it is unique. It makes me shiver. It’s not that her voice is perfect, it’s not that the instruments fit perfect... it’s the way she *expresses* herself with that song. It’s the connection with the public (oh! I’d have loved to be there!) She wakes up feelings inside you... I don’t know how to express the idea better than this.

Jud (moderator) said on November 9, 2004 19:28:

I ended up crying with this song at all shows.. and I still do when I listen to it (cd or dvd).. it was so impressive, everybody shut up, looking and listening to Marie, Marie’s voice all around.. oooohhh!!!

Jud (moderator) said on November 9, 2004 20:20:

btw, just in case somebody forgot about that, Marie’s been going through a hard treatment during these past 2 years and her voice has surely been afected by that. I remember Anastacia could only sing high notes after her operation and treatment. So knowing all this, then listening to the album I am WOW! Marie rules :D

I can’t wait for the docu, she’s supposed to perform some songs live (and it looks like that on those pics on her site).. I DO hope A table in the sun is in !!!

Jud (moderator) said on November 9, 2004 20:27:

LOL Mariah gets on my nerves!!! i try to avoid listening to her voice but sometimes you are somewhere where they just play it.. and jeez!! feels like my head is going to explode or something, you know like in Mars Attack? ;)

Jud (moderator) said on November 9, 2004 20:33:

I didn’t say her voice sucks ;) Just said that I cannot stand it :P Maybe it’s too good for my fine ears ;)

Jud (moderator) said on November 9, 2004 21:45:

text&music by Evert Taube

Så skimrande var aldrig havet
och stranden aldrig så befriande,
fälten, ängarna och träden, aldrig så vackra
och blommorna aldrig så ljuvligt doftande
som när du gick vid min sida
mot solnedgången, aftonen den underbara,
då dina lockar dolde mig för världen,
medan du dränkte alla mina sorger,
älskling, i din första kyss.

So glimmering never was the sea,
and the beach never so relieving,
the fields, meadows and trees never so beautiful,
and the flowers never so lovely fragrant,
as when you walked by my side
towards the sunset, the evening so wonderful,
then your curls hid me from the world,
while you drowned all my sorrows,
darling, in your first kiss.

This song has a special meaning for me because it was sounding the first time Connie and I kissed :) (and it wasn’t planned, we had a mix-CD with some Marie + Eva songs sounding.. and ah well :P)
(and I have curly hair :D)

Hotblooded said on November 9, 2004 23:30:

For me when I first saw Roxette in Sydney in 1991 I will never forget the feelings I left with hearing Marie’s voice live! It was simply stunning one of the most powerful voices I had and have ever heard in my life, I remember having dreams about it for months afterwards wishing to hear it again!

For sure she is not as good as she was then but you know there is just a quality to Marie’s voice that really draws me too it and while she might not be the best singer technically she delievers her performances with heart and that is the main thing.

girl7twenty7 said on November 10, 2004 08:18:

You’re right, Marie’s illness and treatment could affect her voice too... but really not that much I think.

@sparvogamarie Agree it’s hard to sing perfectly when you’re moving. I always wonder how it is possible to sing and to dance at the time. Once I experimented and tried to do it. I never smoked. But I couln’t control my breathe soon. If I trained the result would have been better but not perfect. Anyway I do think that good vocal performance and active moving on stage are kinda opposite things.

btw another spark for Mariah’s fans :) Her high voice irritates me so much too. Maybe it’s to dry or shrill.

You’re talking a lot about Så skimrande... here. It seems you’re very excited by it. Must be a good song...

Vixzter said on November 10, 2004 17:13:

*eidited coz i’m a knobber who can’t read * ;)

@girl7twenty7: i agree about the Mariah voice bit ;)

IV_ROX said on November 11, 2004 04:27:

I consider myself a part of Per’s team, but I love Marie’s voice and some of her solo staff( Tro, Antligen, Sa Stlla Sa..., A Table In..., All About You...) What I adore is Per writing, Marie singing, Per backing up. Or sometimes Per writing, singing, marie backing up and that’s ROXETTE!!!

Oh I so wish there could be another Rox CD!

AURYTE said on November 11, 2004 21:57:

About MARIE’s voice: well, MARIE’s styles of songs are very different. For instance, Mariah or Celine, they sing almost only ballads. And MARIE sings totally different songs, like SLEEPING IN MY CAR & IT MUST HAVE BEEN LOVE on the concert. I guess, this could have affected HER voice a bit. But still I love it and in 2:ND CHANCE MARIE sounds perfect.