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The Pentagon Attack
48 replies
Ferdan said on September 4, 2004 08:09:
coyboyusa said on September 4, 2004 15:20:
this happens all the time people see and witness different things. i rember when the plane blew up over long island what was it 7 - 10 yrs back peopel cliamed they saw a missle a ufo etc. the reason the flight that hit the pentagon was non existent was it was loaded with fuel and incinreated on inpact just liek the ones that hit the trade center. there wasnt a huge gaping whole in the pentagon because of its design. goi rent a movie about the building of the pentagon and u’ll find out alot of fascinating facts, just like it was a good the the wtc was designed as it was cos it collapsed unto itself, if it was a different building it could have fallen sideways and taken out blocvks of buildings and hundreds of people
lets say for a minute too that it was a missle or a military aircraft, perhaps they confiscated the video becuase theres proof that some country america sees as an ally attcvaked us, or perhaps that it was a millitary jet sent to take out the flight over pennsylvania headed towards wdc? if it were say an f15 or 16, which r used to patrol usa air space the dammage to the pentagon would then be justified. there r plenty of possibilites, but there is no denying that saudi nationals funded by al quieda , the saudi royal family and iran did this, theres too many money trails to prove it. so capitualte consiracy theories all you want :)
Ferdan said on September 4, 2004 18:29:
Let´s get out of the conspiracy realm, and let’s get into the realm of hard facts...
Why from the most survillanced building in the world, there isn´t a single clear video of the plane hitting it??
There´s only a 5 frames video, and it doesn´t show more than just a blur...
and adding to that, many especialists, like the one from Guardian.co.uk say it was forged and manipulated.
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/Pentagon/explosion.htm
coyboyusa said on September 5, 2004 05:49:
its called national security rare;y are survelliance videos of national buildings that hold high security protocol ever released to the public. and if this was such a sticking point i am sure the 911 comission would have investigated it alot deeper, and then lets say it wasnt a 757 ? then where are the people and the plane? they don’t just disappear u know ..thats going into the realm of conspiracy
actually if u go by the small holes worht of dammage u see in the video i’d say it was some form of truk bobm then but that still doesnt answer where the plane and its passengers vanished to :)
Roxer93 said on September 5, 2004 07:17:
1. Could the plane have not come in on its side?
2. These pictures were taken on an ordinary 35mm camera, right? If it were me taking the pics, they’d turn out with different brightness because of the simple fact that I’m a bad photographer and it wasn’t as if he/she had time to set up for it!
Ferdan said on September 5, 2004 07:52:
no coyboy, they released a video, so obviously concern about that kind of security ins’t there....
That’s not a very good excuse.
And, those were images from a survillance video camera, not a 35mm photo camera.
“The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed.”
ally77 said on September 5, 2004 08:30:
I watched a lot of footage last night on this from various different sources... and to me that plane did not look like a 757.... that was approching THAT building...
As for a whole plane dissappearing, who knows... this is the US we are talking about, BUSH is a good liar, this we know... :(
Vixzter said on September 5, 2004 18:32:
Why is everyone obsessed with 9/11 still? no disrespect to the ppls that died but all this trundling on about it is bloody boring.
ally77 said on September 5, 2004 20:49:
Well you know the answer, if you don’t like the topic don’t read it....
coyboyusa said on September 6, 2004 10:09:
vix well if bush didnt shove it down the worlds throat as a reason to invade iraq i suppose it would have disappeared. but this was a tragic event i lived 15 minutes outside of NYC when it happened and let me tell you i will never ever forget the who atmosphere in the region the night and says following it. It was tragic i had a neighbour who lost her son in the wtc, she convinced herself for 3 months that he might be wandering ny with amnesia after she had heard about it in a news story, it was horrendous. i think trying to forget about it really fast is dangerous and disrespectful
Jud (moderator) said on September 6, 2004 14:27:
i kinda agree with Vix, we are sorry for what happened and the families that lost some member, friends etc.. but sometimes it feels like this is THE biggest tragedy ever.. or as if other tragedies aren’t that important because it was in another country.. anybody remembers hiroshima? Hitler?
in Spain we don’t go around with the ETA bombings like that, maybe we should remember the huge amount of children that die EVERY DAY..
again, no disrespect for the people who died, got injured, were there, friends, family of the victims... but life goes on or if you wanna remember the 11/9, then also have in mind the other stuff.
The pentagon attack: I think that it *could* be a fake.. but then we don’t have to be naive, it wouldn’t be the first and it won’t be the last one. Money and power makes some people too crazy and dangerous.
ncurran said on September 6, 2004 15:12:
i agree with everything judith said.....i have great sympathy for the victims of 9/11. It was tragic and i think the reason it sticks in peoples minds is that the attack itself was so visual....who could ever forget the image of the planes flying into the twin towers and people jumping out of windows in desperation......
However as someone who is generally cynical about the motives of politicians, and especially those in american govt, i think it is a real shame that the US govt has used this tragic event as a political tool. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, yet bush used this as an excuse to invade that country as part of his war on terror. What about the fact that the majority of the perpetrators were saudi citizens......and why did bush send only 11,000 soldiers into Afganistan to hunt down Osama and his henchmen, but sent 200,000 to iraq. The truth is i dont think bush was ever too concerned about hunting down al quaida, while osama is still at large he feels he is vindicated to continue his ridiculous war on terror.
I also think that although the events of 9/11 were tragic, there was a feeling around the world that those events were inevitable. Many countries and ethnic groups have suffered terrorist attacks and suffering, and america’s foreign policy has done little to alleviate this.
I would never condone the attacks on that day, but I like many people can understand why i think they happened. Its just so sad that the american govt hasnt done the same thing and taken a good look at what brought those events about and attempted to make some policy changes. Because until america and its allies stop a 2-faced approach to world affairs, there will always be someone out for revenge, and another terrorist looking to attack the worlds greatest power
Vixzter said on September 6, 2004 17:12:
i didn’t read the topic....its just every other topic on this board is connected with america or 9/11 or george bush i mean *snore* ;) and they usualy end up archived so we’ve all just wasted valuble keyboard hits to type our long winded replies
coyboyusa said on September 7, 2004 13:38:
a 2 faced approach to the world, i think that outlook is recriprocal. the assumtions that all americans are rich, don’t work much for what we have, are godless, disrespectful simply isn’t true. I dont ever rember seeing americans train their kids to be suicide bombbers and I don’t as a human being unserstand how ANYONE can endorse it. It’s common for the world to attack superpowers because they aren’t one themkselves. i know that sounds ignorant, but it wasn’t too long ago the whole world hated communism, and now theres no cold war so who’s left to attack for the state of the world...oh that’s right america. Noone in this country thinks 911 hold greater presidence in the history of human tragedies than any other in thworld. I think what alot of us here do think is that in many parts of the world alot of peopel think we deserved it and NOONE deserves this, just like the africans in sudan don’t deserved to be murdered by muslim african, and all the serbs that were murdered in the name of genocide didn’t deserve it.. Noone holds the high horse on tragedy, if anyhting we should be trying to stop the crap stop the suffering, but as in many sci fi writers views, and honestly one that i agree with the only way thats gonna happen is when a great human catastrophey happens that levels the playing field to a point where we all have nothing and have to work as one world to solve things will there be peace. Be it a nuclear holocaust, a plague who knows , I am just so glad i will be gone and without children before that happens
ncurran said on September 7, 2004 14:25:
coyboy, i think u may have misunderstood me. Yes I agree that many people around the world, especially in less developed countries have wrong assumptions about america and life for americans.
However, the 2-faced approach i was talking about was not from ordinary american citizens, but rather the 2 faced and biased policies that the american govt adopts. For example, why are dictatorships and brutality acceptable in certain countries as long as they proclaim themselves to be allies of america, and yet in other countries where there is no democracy that is not acceptable?
I also hate the use of the word “freedom” in the american media, and by a section of the population. America proclaims itself to be the land of the free but if anyone dares to criticise policies, they are immediately branded anti-american or unpatriotic.....look at the way france was vilified because they refused to support the war. Is that not their right, as a sovereign nation, a democracy to refuse to support a war it doesnt support in principle. Its a pity Tony Blair didnt take their example, since the majority of british citizens were also against the war, and it is debateable if bush would have had the guts to go it alone if blair had not supported him.
And one more thing, i never mentioned endorsing the attacks on 9/11. I am quite comfortable saying that i condemn the attacks on that day. What I was saying is that u need to try and understand WHY it happened. What made these people stoop to this level, what was their reasoning....what can we do to prevent it from happening again. Bush’s response is to declare an all out war, go and attack, but the problem is there is nowhere really to attack, because this movement is worldwide, it is a war america cannot win. It therefore has to look at a way to appease these peoples anger. And you only have to listen to people around the world to know what it is that angers them....not that america is rich or the worlds biggest power, but the fact of america’s arrogance, unjust foreign policy, and ignorance. America’s position on the middle east is probably the most damaging, they really need to look at taking a less biased stance in this region.
And i agree what you said about a massive catastrophe....its something i fear happening more and more each day, but the feeling wasnt like this before bush was elected. He has basically gone out of his way to be defiant and dismiss the rest of the world....he has alienated america, and created a lot of anger around the world. God forbid if one of these groups gets hold of a nuclear weapon, i dont think they would think twice about using it.
coyboyusa said on September 7, 2004 21:52:
ok well i ask this of you then, why is it only america’s role to act against horrendous dictators and burtal murderous regims. the european union and the united nations sat back for almost a year while genocidal acts were being comitted in the former yougoslavia. The U N sat on their hands while irelan was a murderzone. They still sit on their hands while africa dies of aids and starvation. I don’t think its very fair to kick americans with you fooot then shake our hands with the other. We know that as a ” super power” we have a role to play. We also know that assuming a lkeadership role will brand us with certain sterotypes and detractors. And i do agree that our foreign policies are a bit dated, it doesn’t take a genious to know that. But i don’t think reasoning with peopel who strap c4 to their kids and send them off grocery shopping are the type of peopel that can be reasoned with. i dunno maybe i am wrong, but who cares I’ll be dead in roughly 60 yrs :)
I also don’t deny that bush has alientated a large chuck of the world on global policies such as nuclear poliferation and environmental standards, but instead of blowing up americans wouldn’t the better thing be to pressure your own politicans to denounce bush. When the us was the only person to say no to a global reduction of harmful emission, i didn’t hear much about it anywhere. Where were your representatives at the un? they shopuld have been on tv bitching and whining. here in the us he rolled back environmental standards clinton set up including protecting alot of alaskan forest from oil drilling. theres no doubt he needs to go, but i also don’t wanna spend the first 2 years of kerry’s presidency hearing him grovel and apologize to everyone
ncurran said on September 8, 2004 05:07:
coyboy, i am not saying that america should keep out of world affairs, what i am saying is there should be some co-operation with other countries. Is it anywonder there is resentment when the US, UK take unilateral action without any agreement from the rest of the world. I also agree that the UN isnt perfect and needs reform, though it also needs to be there. At the moment, no action can be taken unless all members of the security council agree, which isnt really feasible, cos each of the countries have there own allies/interest and certain areas they dont want to interfere with.
And the EU might help more than you think. Even France/Germany are helping with the reconstruction of iraq, although they disagreed with the invasion.
I also think it was a disgrace that the US didnt sign up to the Kyoto agreement.....and much of the worlds media and leaders said as much at the time...there is very little they can do about it though. Thats part of the problem, america seems to be able to get away with just about anything it wants.
coyboyusa said on September 8, 2004 12:02:
uhm america isnt the only country that does whatever it wants dare we go back to iran and n koreas nuclear proliferation, russia uk and usa’s stockpiling of biological warfare elements in the face of signed treaties saying they wouldn’t.. humanity is a child race we have alot of growing up to do, but part of the problem is the onsided blame, everyone is guilty if everyone just fessed up things would change.
ncurran said on September 8, 2004 14:26:
yes coyboy, i agree with what u just said....many countries are guilty. The European commission are currently taking the UK govt to court because the the nuclear waste at one of its nuclear plants at sellafield. As for N.Korea Kim Jong Il is an absolute nutcase, but Bush has taken the wrong stance with him. A confrontational attitude was never going to work...with the asian concept of saving face. U need to treat that idiot with kid gloves. I dont think they are too much of a danger though in real terms despite their military potential...yes the threat is there, but thats all it is a threat, he would never be stupid enough to attack anyone as its a war he would ultimately lose, and the most important thing to him is to stay in power....he wants the best of both worlds, to isolate the country from the world but also for the world to donate food, oil etc.
And Iran I am not sure of....it would be great if the whole middle east could be nuclear free, but i understand why a country like iran would want a nuclear deterrent. To make a nuclear free middle east viable, Israel shouldnt be allowed nuclear weapons either.
LittleSpooky said on September 9, 2004 03:39:
Then I have only one question:
What happened to the missing plane and people? I’m sorry, but I don’t know ANYONE who would WILLINGLY kill that many people. SOMEONE would have found out about it and the world would have heard by now if that was the case.
Jud (moderator) said on September 9, 2004 05:44:
do you know the president that well? ;)
But if you think of that, it would be possible to fake a list of victims - how to find out that NOBODY knows them? You surely don’t go around asking “did you know him? did you know him?” to 200 million people or? About the plane: the police/FBI tells the media “this plane has disappeared” but there has never been a plane. The media goes out with that - did you actually see the plane take off and follow it all the way to the pentagon?
Does it sound a bit James Bond? They use to say that the reality sometimes surpasses the fiction ;)
PS: I still think that a fake would have been too risky and that it was really a plane - but IF I was to think the other way round I guess those are the answers I would have to my own questions.
LittleSpooky said on September 9, 2004 05:52:
*scratching head* I guess the reason I’m askin that is: The families who have come forward because their relatives were on that flight that, at least according to the start of this topic, may / may not have hit the Pentagon. You can’t pay off THAT many people.
Laws of probabilities / statistics / whatever:
The more chefs working on a soup, the more likely it will be ruined.
Translation: The more people involved in a cover-up of THIS magnitude, the more than likely it is that someone would let slip that a person on that flight is still alive and well (or relatively so). Does that make sense?
Although it IS easy to “doctor” logs, I don’t think there was enough time to do that for this one particular flight. Too damn many questions, not enough bloody answers
Jud (moderator) said on September 9, 2004 05:57:
yes of course it would be more complicated to plant so many people.. but how many exactly have come forward? 5? 10? 100?
Anyway, still hard to believe, it is also known that anti-bush have faked info as well sometimes so who knows WHO played with the pictures.
LittleSpooky said on September 9, 2004 05:59:
Dunno how many.
Send me to bed? I’ll be up all NIGHT playing with you on this in our little sand box.
Jud (moderator) said on September 9, 2004 06:00:
just a small note that goes for the latest discussions.. have you all got together and decided “let’s make it easy for the moderators” and conduct a _discussion_ instead of a flame? :P
Thanks so far :)
LittleSpooky said on September 9, 2004 06:05:
*points to the white flag above the computer screen*
he he he he
ncurran said on September 9, 2004 15:28:
I’m still not convinced about all the conspiracy theories to be honest, i havent made up my mind either way....i’m not a scientist so i cant look at these pictures and say either way whether that could have been a jet that crashed into the pentagon, cos i dont really know what happens when an aircraft crashes at that speed into a building. People say, what happened to the wings, well i suppose it is possible that if the aircraft is filled with fuel the explosion could blow everything into little pieces....i have no idea to be honest.
However just to make it a little more interesting, I’ll throw another little possibility into the ring. It is not possible that the aircraft was heading towards the pentagon, and the govt decided the army should shoot it down somewhere to avoid the danger of destruction in the nations capital. Maybe they didnt want to admit to doing that, killing all the civilians onboard, or they didnt want to give the impression that govt buildings in washington were more important that the lives of the thousands who were in the twin towers. Thats when they decided to fake the attack on the pentagon as they had to explain where the missing aircraft was in some way. Does anyone actually know if any govt officials were killed inside the building on the impact? If they were moved outside the area where the explosion was to take place then that would make it pretty suspicious. Let me say, i do not necessarily believe any of this, its just an idea i had.
Jud (moderator) said on September 9, 2004 16:31:
question: but.. where should this plane have been shot down? surely people would have seen it explode/fall on the ground if it crashed somewhere else than the Pentagon?
coyboyusa said on September 9, 2004 18:18:
there was a big uproar when the 911 panel asked why orders were never given to shoot down either this plane or the one that crashed in pa. there were no f15-16’s airbord at the time the planes were detected, and for some reason the decision was left up to dick cheney who never gave the order peopel still wonder
ncurran said on September 9, 2004 19:00:
judith dont ask too many questions....i was only thinking out loud really about the possibilities...just a theory, i dont really think its true. I shouldnt have opened my mouth.....
i’m not really sure where the plane that hit the pentagon took off from anyway, so i’m not really sure how far it had to travel to reach washington. I dont know, i mean america is a vast country, i suppose it is feasible that it could have been shot down somewhere in the wilderness, but that all depends on the path it took and how far it was away from the pentagon when it took off.
Coyboy, u probably know more about this than i do....
Please dont anyone flame me for this theory, as i said it was just an idea, it is very improbable.
ally77 said on September 9, 2004 20:40:
I am watching a good programme now on tv called “The 9/11 Conspiracies” I was keen to watch it, but now after 30 mins into the programme even I am thinking this is pure bull shit.... No matter how shite the US govement is, even I don’t think they could ever perform something like this....
Jud (moderator) said on September 9, 2004 20:49:
nono ncurran, I was just wondering and answering to your theory as Little Spooky did to other theories before :):)
Hopefully nobody will flame *cross fingers*
ncurran said on September 10, 2004 07:30:
judith, no problem... i was just saying i wont necessarily be able to back up my own theory as i was just thinking out loud.
I think the conspiracy theories are interesting, though probably not true. But you have to look why these theories come about. Over the past few years there is an increasing feeling that those in govt and the media lies to us, and there is a feeling of things being done behind closed doors. I mean i know people have never trusted politicians, but speaking from a UK perspective here, the way Tony Blair handled the whole iraq war was quite patronising. He basically disregarded the whole countries doubts and expected people to trust his governments judgement. That is one of the issues, another one is the expansion of the internet....nowadays anyone can get their theories and opinions heard no matter how loony they are, and there will always be other loonies to listen to them....then even those with some sanity left start to wonder what is fact and what is fiction. Maybe this is just a taste of things to come.
ally77 said on September 10, 2004 08:16:
Tony Blair, reminds me of one of those nodding dogs to buy for the back of the car....
ncurran said on September 10, 2004 09:12:
i wont even say what i think of tony blair, as i dont think this is an x-rated msg board...
anyway, i just saw this link from bbc news...interesting to see how the world would vote in the US election.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3640754.stm
coyboyusa said on September 10, 2004 17:49:
mr curran conspiracy theories date back as far as humanity exists literally even whenre the only government was the church
ncurran said on September 10, 2004 18:49:
coyboy, u are probably right that conspiracy theories have always been there, but i dont think they have been to this extent. the thing is the printed media dont often print them, but on the internet everyone has a voice and an opinion, so i think we will only here more outlandish conspiracy theories than before on the internet.
ncurran said on September 10, 2004 18:50:
Heres a bush joke i read today...pretty funny....
Tragedy
George W. Bush is visiting a primary school and he ends up in one of
the classrooms where the class is in the middle of a discussion
relating to words and their meanings.
The teacher asks the President if he would like to lead the discussion
of the word “tragedy”.
One little boy stands up and offers: “If my best friend who lives on a
farm is playing in a field and a runaway tractor comes along and
knocks him dead, that would be a tragedy.”
“No,” says President Bush, “that would be an accident.”
A little girl raises her hand: “If a school bus carrying fifty
children drove over a cliff killing everybody inside, that would be a
tragedy.”
“I’m afraid not,” explains the exalted leader, “that’s what we would
call a great loss.”
The room goes silent. No other children volunteer. President Bush’s
eyes search the room and he asks, “Isn’t there somebody here who can
give me an example of tragedy?”
Finally at the back of the room, little Johnny raises his hand. In a
quiet voice he says: “If “Air Force One” carrying you was struck by a
missile and blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy.”
“Fantastic!” exclaims George W., “that’s right, and can you tell me
why that would be a tragedy?”
“Well,” says Johnny, “because it sure as hell wouldn’t be a great loss
and probably wouldn’t be an accident either.”
coyboyusa said on September 10, 2004 21:17:
yawn now we’re abdicating murder of public officials what is this columbia?
LittleSpooky said on September 11, 2004 03:41:
Coy: Get a clue
One of the best jokes I’ve heard in a LONG time.
ncurran said on September 11, 2004 04:11:
anyway, since it is Sept 11 now, i would like to pass by best wishes to anyone effected by those terrible events 3 years ago. Lets all hope and pray for a peaceful world full of love. Maybe its wishful thinking, but i dont think its impossible.
Ferdan said on September 11, 2004 08:24:
My best wishes to those affected by the US backed military coup that ended democracy in Chile in september 11 of 1973, followed by a dictatorship that killed thousands :(
ally77 said on September 4, 2004 09:02:
wow, very intresting footage...
I was only thinking of 9/11 the other day as there was a drama on UK tv about the people that plotted to do what they did! it made intresting watching and after seeing it, it made me think, how come when you think of 9/11 you think of New York, Twin Towers, and nothing else... well I do anyway, baring in mind there where four planes involved...
Makes you wonder doesn’t it....