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What is the difference between Rock and Pop?
26 replies
Th_Th said on April 29, 2003 08:15:
I have always wondered about that... There are Groups with Dance Music, that call themselves a Pop Band. Some R&B Bands consider themselves Pop...
I am seriously wondering about what Pop really is, what is Dance, R&B, Techno, House and what about Rock?? Is there anyone here that know music really well and can explain? I mean, it seems like almost everything is Pop. don’t people say, that the Beatles invented Pop Music? What is it they invented though? WHAT IS POP???
:-)
rox-kuryliw said on April 29, 2003 12:05:
looks like a good brake down to me.
pearls of passion - Pop
Lookl sharp - pop / a bit rock
Joyride - Rock / pop
Tourism- Rock / pop
CBB - rock
HAND - pop / a bit rock ish
RS - Pop.
i want another rock / pop album. :(
Th_Th said on April 29, 2003 12:22:
But what is the difference of pop and rock? How come you an call dance groups pop?? I still just don’t get it...
Jackeill said on April 29, 2003 19:08:
hey hey, pop is exactly NOTHING. or EVERUTTHING, as you wish. the music most popular in some time is called pop. like beatles were pop in 60... nowadays their music is rather called rock :). but, i think, that today many ppl say, that pop is some electronic-oriented music, with sweet verses and catchy chorus. eventually there is a light guitar in the backround. such “artists” like britney, christina, pink, they are pop...
Jackeill said on April 29, 2003 19:19:
btw. how would you call placebo? what is this? :) rock? pop? metal? punk? britpop? :)
TrustNo1 said on April 29, 2003 19:35:
I always say that “pop” music is more “programmed”....drums programmed, keyboards, etc.
“Rock” has real guitars and drums, and the guitars are VERY prominent.
Just my two cents.....
Steve
Vixzter said on April 29, 2003 20:34:
I’d describe Roxette as Pop/Rock and Def Leppard as Rock.......but then labels were only made up by record companies anyway.
Call it what you like ;)
@kiwijazza: you like Madness? I thought I was the only one around here....they’re cool ...I went to see them play last december, I haven’t had such a good time at a concert in ages!
harriej said on April 29, 2003 21:44:
Rock is a bit rougher than pop.
Pop is more easy-listening.
I guess powerpop is somewhere between pop and rock, but probably our genius Powerpoplarry can explain that better!
powerpoplarry said on April 30, 2003 03:48:
OK, my name IS powerpoplarry after all, as I am kind of an authority on the subject (pop vs rock) so let me see if I can explain...
Jackeill + Harriej have it KIND of right, but rox-kuryliw has it COMPLETELY wrong. See, yes, back in the 60s pop was shorthand for popular music, BUT since then, pop and popular split into two different, separate words with different meanings, different tangents. See, POP means, first and foremost, CATCHY, bright, hook-filled songs, whether they are popular or not, and POPULAR means exactly that, what is big at the moment, period. Stuff that is popular is not always POP MUSIC, while REAL POP MUSIC is rarely popular!! It’s rare that the two ever crossed paths, one that did was Roxette!! Not only that, why POP is about a GENRE, rather than what is big at the moment, here’s a scenario: a group playing R+B or heavy rock, not catchy at all, is a slow builder, not big at all. THEN, their latest single, after struggling for 5 years or so, CLICKS. All of a sudden, they are huge, all the rage, all over MTV, etc, yet they are not playing POP music. They are popular now, yes, but are they POP??? HELL NO!! You don’t BECOME POP, you either ARE or you are NOT, based on your songwriting + songs!! Understand??
Now, catchy pop can be a variety of forms + styles: if you’re bright, catchy, edgy, guitar-driven, harmonious, song-driven + SINCERE, influenced by the 60s British Invasion, but you transcend it as well, you are known as POWERPOP!! If you are catchy, dance-able, bright + bubblegummy, aka AQUA, you are PURE POP. Not exactly technoey, a bit yes, but you must be SONG-driven, vocal or instrumental. Otherwise, you’re just techno dance music. Now, there are radio-driven teen artists like Britney, Christina, Avril, etc. For the most part, these people are sold via marketing, merch, and promoted heavily on radio + MTV, and art/songwriting is not the main focus. Those people are considered BUBBLEGUM.
Now, yes, many great pop artists blur the lines between powerpop and pure pop, yep, people like Roxette, but since they are guitar-dominated, and Per is main songwriter + art/songwriting is the focus, Roxette are powerpop. Now, yes, where does the term ROCK come into play?? Well, powerpop is a catchy, tuneful, song-driven subgenre of rock + roll, where songwriting is the focus, over danger. Where is the difference between powerpop and rock + roll?? The sense of danger and rebellion make an act all-out ROCK instead of just powerpop, BUT the songs HAVE to be catchy + melodic to still be rock + roll!! Now, on the other hand, if the songwriting is not there, and it’s just riffs + noise, wanking away, that’s all it is, riffs + noise, going nowhere.
On the other hand, these so-called punk/pop groups all over radio?? BUBBLEGUM!! Sorry...it’s all in the marketing first, and not about the songcraft cuz all those groups sound the same and quite generic if you ask me...
dcantera said on April 30, 2003 05:45:
as a songwritter, I can tell you that:
Pop: bubblegum. the important thing is a precise combination between words and music. I do that at the same time, because it has to be perfect
Principal instruments: acoustic & electric guitar, keyboards, hamond, bass.
Rock: it´s a dirty sound. Not so perfect, so bubblegum. Principal instruments:drums, electric guitars, bass
Th_Th said on April 30, 2003 08:02:
Powerpoplarry:
thanks a million, your explanation makes so much more sense to me now... thanks for sharing it.
Vixzter said on April 30, 2003 09:48:
@powerpop : you know too much ;) hehehehe, good explanation btw.
rox-kuryliw said on April 30, 2003 10:00:
powerpop , i studied music , and have a BTEC national diploma in popular music, so thanks for your view , but i stand what i say pop means popular oringanally . pop/rock simply means popular rock music. over time the meaning has changed, but to what is every ones view ( or look it up in a dictionary) lol
roxette’s album The pop hits
means the popular hits in many counties thats why they called it that , i read that somewhere. its not a type of music. if they called it rock hits ! now that is a type of music. or R& B hits .
rox-kuryliw said on April 30, 2003 14:28:
th th , its up to you , pop means different in each country, mostly popular . look in a dictionary if you dont believe me, but your more thean welcome to your own ideas. have fUN !!!
Th_Th said on April 30, 2003 15:22:
rox-kuryliw:
I know you didn’t make it up that Pop would mean Popular Music... I have heard that many times before... but it doesn’t make sense, as that would mean that the music style would be changing, even though the song is not.
Take “It must have been love” for example... when it first came out, it was Popular, therefore, it was a pop song. But now, 13 years later, it is not popular anymore, so what is it now?
We could call it U-Pop = Unpopular... ;-)
sfchemist said on April 30, 2003 16:58:
does it matter? pop and rock are always grouped together in the shops and as long as you like it does it matter what its called? =)
powerpoplarry said on May 1, 2003 04:42:
Thanxx for the comments, guys, I’m happy I explained myself well + you seem to understand what pop music REALLY means...
DCantera, yep, you’re on the right track. One thing though, powerpop can be dirty-sounding too. Take for example: LA band The Muffs, kinda dirty and grungy but still powerpop cuz of Kim Shattuck’s tight, catchy songwriting at the core. To be rock + roll over powerpop, there must also be a sense of danger, recklessness + rebellion, as well as not be perfect. Powerpop, for the most part, is clean + sincere, like they really mean it.
Yep, Th_Th, glad you understand. Vix, LOL!! Thanx for understanding, but I feel I really analyzed powerpop well enough to explain to people what it really is.
Now, Rox-Kuryliw, I respect the fact you have a well-rounded musical education and all, and I see where you are coming from, but really, the only way to understand what powerpop really means, you have to be immersed in it completely, analyze key groups, and get experience that way; you can’t get to this point studying textbooks. Yes, correct, pop ORIGINALLY meant popular music, BUT that was in the 60s when popular music REALLY WAS POP MUSIC!! They were one + the same. However, that all changed in the late 60s when popular music started getting all progressive, epic and lengthy. It was at that point when POP MUSIC and what was actually popular split along different tangents. POP MUSIC went UNDERGROUND!! Powerpop is a better term for pop/rock, aka CATCHY rock music, song-based, songs that stay stuck in your head for days, songs that are bright, and sincere.
Now, Roxette’s collection “The Pop Hits” is a PERFECT album title to clarify what I was trying to explain. They called it “The POP Hits”, to mean the catchy powerpop tunes, a sister collection to “The BALLAD Hits”, aka the slower love/sad songs. In this case, POP means upbeat, bright and catchy. Notice the word HITS on both collections?? That word means the POPULAR songs. The words POP and BALLAD refer to the GENRE or STYLE each collection is focused on. Understand?? POP is a genre, as opposed to what’s big at the moment. POP IS a type of music!! And you really won’t find it’s true meaning in the dictionary really, it comes from experience + collecting.
How would you explain this then: a pop UNDERGROUND?? If to you, pop means popular, then there WOULDN’T be a need for an underground, right?? Well, there is, cuz pop/powerpop is a GENRE of music with a clique of fans and bands specializing in this musical form, Roxette included. There are powerpop specialty magazines like Audities, Amplifier, Yellow Pills, etc, powerpop specialty RECORD LABELS like Not Lame (www.notlame.com), powerpop FESTIVALS in places like LA, NYC, Chicago, Nashville, festivals like “International Pop Overthrow”, aka IPO. There are also numerous compilation CDs, like Rhino’s 3CD series called “Poptopia!! Powerpop Classics Of The 70s, 80s + 90s”, and Big Deal Records’ “Yellow Pills” compilations.
You should really investigate and do some REAL RESEARCH on powerpop, instead of just relying on your lame excuses like, well, I have a degree in such + such, and it doesn’t say it in the dictionary, so it doesn’t exist!! C’mon!! Step up to the plate and do some real research...
Lastly, yes, Sarah, it really does matter... ;-) Many stores don’t have a clue and misclassify stuff all the time. It’s about time someone correct this situation.
Th_Th said on May 6, 2003 07:43:
I think we do not have any other option really but to let this thread die... as there is not much more that can be said... ;-) Powerpoplarry, you summed it all up. :-) Thanks for that. :-)
powerpoplarry said on May 7, 2003 02:50:
Oh OK, Th_Th, very well then. If someone wants to add anything, feel free to do so, otherwise it’s like the story ended, or something like that....
Th_Th said on May 7, 2003 07:57:
You are right powerpoplarry, or else we just post boring messages like these once here every once in a while to keep this cool threat alive! ;-)
Santi said on May 8, 2003 08:54:
I think a big difference between pop and rock is the level of overdrive in the guitars :D
powerpoplarry said on May 9, 2003 04:54:
Not necessarily Santi. The best pop has MAXIMUM overdrive in the guitar department!! See: “Surrender” by Cheap Trick or “Opportunity Nox” or “Little Miss Sorrow” by Roxette. The difference is the level of recklessness + sloppiness, while still retaining catchy-as-hell melodies + hooks.
tinytim said on May 9, 2003 17:06:
The biggest question should be...what’s the difference between rock fans and pop fans...
I mean...rock’n roll fans are getting stupidier and stupidier the more you talk to them...at least here in my country. Four years ago, rock’n roll was almost dead...now, when the previsible short lifetime of BSB, Aguilera, Britney and other has ended, the rock’n roll arised again, and its appreciators seem to appear as people with a very refined music taste...ok...I remember of a guy in a music tv show here, telling Genesis’ story...that they were cool while doing rock, but then “they moved to pop style...well, it’s OK, anyway...” Rockers generally mislead pop with poppy...the New Kids on the block, BSB, blablabla...too-much-electronic style...and well, they’re right about hating it. The problem it’s when they generalize it way too much and include Roxette inside that range. I remember perfectly of Per saying in Live-ism, how much people from every music branch enjoyed Roxette, including rockers...
I believe that in the 80’s, the main difference between rock and pop was in the lyrix...’cause any of the rythms could choice for the same music resources sometimes (Duran Duran, Rush...). Only heavy metal was something...marginal, bad, too heavy.
In my opinion, rock its a cool style, but within the limits. It’s a kinda ordinary music style, as Per himself explains, a three-chord music style. Pop offers much more resources, and beautiful songs, too.
kiwijazza said on April 29, 2003 11:49:
Um...I’ll try answer this one by naming some famous artists next to the genre:
Roxette: Pop/Rock
Basement Jaxx: House
Metallica: Metal
Tool: Nu Metal
Madness: Ska
The Offspring: Punk Rock
Savage Garden: Pop
The Beatles: Rock
Donna Summer: Disco/Pop
Duran Duran: New Wave/Pop
Something like that. Some of these artists would be best described as that because of a lot of their songs. Roxette would be Pop/Rock because they’ve played both at some point, or even in the same era (Pop: Neverending Love; Rock: Sleeping In My Car).
I’m probably rambling now, but I hope that ’kind of’ helps. Hehe.