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The meaning of TDR and misunderstandings
40 replies
Santi said on April 2, 2003 20:20:
Well, now that someone has banned replying in a thread I had written half a page I gotta say this.
The Daily Roxette for many of us is more than “an online newspaper about Roxette”. Since the “sense of community” Lars Erik likes to speak out has been created among us coming here for me and many people is like meeting friends. And well, we gotta thank Visa Kopu for creating the Off-topic section in which we can talk about “whatever we want”. I’ll copy and paste the description: “Forum description: Talk about your world, your love, your life... about anything.”
I come here to talk to my friends (and some unfriendly character we all know) about “anything”. And this community sense grows because of this, they are not just freak collectors of records, or whatever else, I see them as people (that you can’t see in the Rox forum).
However, if the discussion is directed to avoid certain topics, we feel you want to control us, and that destroys the “sense of comunity” as much as flaming can, or even more. Because that freedom you promise is just void words. That makes the forum false, a big fake.
I think the directors of all this (whoever the censor is) can’t understand what that “group of friends sense” means to us, and that’s why you keep on banning. Don’t you ever had a fight with a friend? I think it’s normal. Life is not perfect.
purplemedusa said on April 3, 2003 07:52:
Go Santi... I would like to see a decent response from the “officials” without deleting or archiving this thread!
Starrox said on April 3, 2003 11:00:
Me three! ;-)
I think in the long run things like this new rule will hurt TDR more than it will help... I mean, look at the threads here right now - most of them are simply more or less meaningless chatting and you don’t miss anything if you skip them! The thing I liked about Off-Topic was that people with different backgrounds also shared their point of view on “serious topics” and not only on stuff like “What haircolor looks best on me?”... but unfortunately, that’s history now and I’ll probably skip Off-Topic alltogether... *shrugs*
It was nice while it lasted, even if people disagreed or flamed others - still wish you’d think things over, though!
zeeshan said on April 3, 2003 11:04:
I am on Santi’s side. They just ARCHIVED I started earlier and trust me there was NO FLAMING. This flame thing is a cover to hide the real thing which is NO WAR TOPICS (truth hurts right?)
Z
tevensso (moderator) said on April 3, 2003 13:12:
But the discussions that were “banned” as you say, weren’t that friendly, were they? They were full of “STUPID Americans/Israelis/whoever” and “idiot this” and “idiot that”. That’s why we felt it went overboard. You should know that TDR has one of the least moderated forums around. On most forums you are kicked immediately for even mentioning anything close to what you all have written in the “banned” posts. Why do you even have to discuss politics here?? You can never reach an agreement anyway. The Arab world thinks one thing, while the West world thinks another, and then there are 1,000,000 more opinions inbetween that. So once more, leave the politics and religion out of TDR, please. //Thomas
Aaso said on April 3, 2003 13:20:
Could you please name some no just one of those forums that kick users out for talking baout WAR??!!
As far as I can say most of the threads now have a forum named “Politics” .... in addition to off-topic :DD
If you are intrested I can give you the addresses and you can easily see that this forum is one of the *or maybe the only forum” forums that did archiving the Political threads!!!
*I’m sorry if my post seems FLAMING* :DD
Aaso said on April 3, 2003 13:23:
And something else ... *Arab world* and * West world* .... Don’t you think it’s FLAMING too ;D
Aaso said on April 3, 2003 13:25:
Because I love Roxette and also I love this forum much more than those ones .... and also I love people here ....... And that’s why I care most about what’s going on here!
tevensso (moderator) said on April 3, 2003 13:25:
What I mean is that there are (at least) two totally different parts of the world involved and that’s not flaming at all, which you probably know. But if you wish to misunderstand then I can’t do anything about it...
So discuss Roxette here and the war at those other forums? Problem solved! :)
Jud (moderator) said on April 3, 2003 13:27:
well I gotta say that what Thomas says is true..there are many websites that ban you just for not following the rules.
I know some webhosting or webdesign sites, with news, information, tutorials.... where you can chat, yes, but just about the specific stuff. AND when there is off-topic forums, many words such as idiot, a**hole, ... are banned. Also when a person is reported as flammer, is banned, deleted, etc etc.
But I think we would have been able to go on talking on such subjects if certain people would have left the insults home :(
Aaso said on April 3, 2003 13:29:
Thank you for trying to make me understand and your patience for listening my opinion!!! :)))))
Santi said on April 3, 2003 13:42:
Thomas: Forum description: Talk about your world, your love, your life... about anything.
Roxette has a Roxette Forum in this site...
StillFar said on April 3, 2003 13:55:
Thomas: you created an off-topic forum to talk about stuff besides Rox...also, I believe that your “e- newspaper” as Lars-Erik puts it, lives from its community, therefore, I can’t really understand why the community shouldn’t have the right to talk about war...I mean hello, is there anything more important right now than the war? The decisions that have been made over the last few weeks will change the history books and you think that the people who talk to each other every day about whatever shouldn’t be able to exchange their point of view about the situation we have right now? No, we won’t find solutions, but that is not the point. If you go through the removed topics, you will see that there are a couple of people who changed their minds...which I think is a very important thing.
So, I’m asking you for one straight answer, before I consider if TDR is the kind of community I want to join. What’s the problem? Is it the flaming or the topic itself, as your comments don’t really clarify why the topics have been removed?
tevensso (moderator) said on April 3, 2003 14:23:
I can’t answer for either Visa or LEO, but I personally consider the war topics to be too flammable to be discussed in a music forum. I’m not saying that I’m pro or con the war, I just think that you shouldn’t discuss it here. Since it’s obvious that you can’t handle it. I mean, even me saying that there are more than one part involved was considered being a “flame”.
So, when the staff has discussed this properly, we will come to a decision. If that decision is to keep the war (and religion) out of TDR, then that’s that. There is no “freedom of speech” here, that’s just in your minds. If we decide to keep the topics, then you will have to behave better than so far. Am I at least a bit clear? :)
Ferdan said on April 3, 2003 14:32:
Well, yes... the most important topic on the world right now is the war.
Every comunity is talking about it, because it will change our future, Americans, Europeans, Asians, South Americans, and everyone else’s future.
If someone is not interested in war topics, he simply won’t chose to read the war topics. It’s not that it’s obligatory to read them.
If TDR wants a community of people without sense of reality... well, say it from a start. But i find hard to believe that a “real community” can be based on trivial subjects.
And I can’t believe TDR want’s to be called an “E-Newspaper” and at the same time forbid talking about war. I don’t think serious newspaper would avoid the subject of war, we are not living on a cloud.
StillFar said on April 3, 2003 14:44:
it’s kind of funny the way you describe TDR. No freedom of speech, I’d put it that way, there’s no TDR without a willing community. I feel strange that TDR is collecting money to support 9/11 victims, but is questioning the right to discuss an issue that’s on everybodies mind and heart.
No point to discuss further, I guess you will update us with your ’decision’...
Jud (moderator) said on April 3, 2003 14:46:
I think that what Thomas tries to say is.. that we can talk about anything we want.. as long as we don’t flame/ insult eachother! But we don’t success to do so.
Facts:
- One of the policies in TDR is “no flamming / no insults”.
- Some don’t manage to have a discussion without insulting eachother.
- Since most of the threads where these insults have been “exchanged” are the “controversial” ones (war, religion..) they have been temporarely archived to stop these insults / flames.
- The staff may consider to open them again, if we “behave”. I personally think that one thing is posting one’s opinion, another is doing it by using sentences like “you are idiot to think that”. So we should show that we *can* manage to have a discussion without insults :)
zeeshan said on April 3, 2003 14:49:
@Stillfar: I agree with you!
@Ferdan: You continue to impress me. Doesn’t matter what my first impression about you was but I really like you now. GOOD POINTS!
As long as anyone is not flaming then I guess WAR topics should be allowed. The “flamed” part can be easily deleted. OFF-TOPIC should not be descriminatory. I appreciate the TDR team taking care of it’s community and their behaviours here but I guess you CAN allow WAR topics. If you can put up an interview from Mr. Gessle, in which, he opposed WAR then you should also allow the community to talk about it. If the BRAIN of Roxette thinks about WAR then don’t you think that other people also has things in mind and would like to discuss them with friends here?
tevensso (moderator) said on April 3, 2003 14:52:
Per didn’t discuss the war, he just simply said he was against it. If you all here did just that it would be fine, but you *don’t*, that’s the whole point! Per didn’t even once mention the “asshole Bush” or the “asshole Saddam”. Do you see my point??
Roxrider_USA said on April 3, 2003 15:10:
@everyone:
I support both sides. Also, i understand both sides.
On one hand, what Santi refers to is perfectly acceptable. This forum is supposed to be a place where we can talk about anything. Therefore, as soon as we start to have threads banned or deleted the Off-Topic section of TDR starts to lose its purpose. As a result, we feel that we have lost the freedom that the description of the Off-Topic section of TDR allows us to have.
On the other hand, however, the war threads, i believe, were not deleted because they were war threads but because some members, unfortunately, cannot voice their opinions without resorting to narrow-mindedness and low words when replying to someone else’s opinion, which they believe is wrong or unnaceptable. Therefore, due to the lack of sense of respect towards someone else’s views and opinions, the threads were taken out. Moreover, in a way, the war threads were just like a war; a war of words. Some of the repliers to those threads were, in my point of view, imposing their opinions on others by saying that some of the opinions of other reliers were plain “stupid” or “sick”.
In short, Santi’s commets are completely right concerning the loss of freedom in a section of TDR that is supposed to allow us freedom to express ourselves. However, the war threads were not deleted because they were war threads. If that was the case, they would have been deleted or banned the minute they were created, which was not the case. So, in a way, those that cannot respectfully listen to the opinion of others and reply to those same opinions without resorting to “low words” or sarcastic tones, are actually responsible to the loss of freedom that my friend Santi commeted on. The minute i saw how those war threads were going, i let you guys know that i would stop replying, which i did. It was not a healthy and nice discussion anymore. It was only about some people trying to impose what they believe is right on others that believe that something else is right.
Guys, this is not they way we will ever change our world out there for us and for our future family members. The unfortunate conflict out there, is an example of our failure to listen and understand each other to work together to chance our Earth. Similarly, the war threads issue, was preciptated by our failure to listen and understand each other as well. Come on friends, let learn how to listen to each to other and respect each other. The world needs us doing that.
Take care everyone. :-) !
Carlos E., New York.
coyboyusa said on April 3, 2003 17:39:
coyboyusa said on April 3, 2003 17:40:
also a reminder this isn’t our forum it is proivided to us by the peopel who run the daily roxette
they make the rules deal with it :)
you can always create a yahoo newsgroup and post your rantings there as well :)
Aaso said on April 3, 2003 17:51:
Someone is trying to kill his self instead of trying to change his behaves :DD *Guess who* ??
Aaso said on April 3, 2003 17:59:
I think at least I started to find my bad points in replying. I should first calm and then write :D
Roxrider_USA said on April 3, 2003 18:09:
@Mel: See why you have enchanted me? Way to go, Little Miss Mel! Te adoro. muahhhh!!
Later!
Carlos E., New York.
Emil__BG said on April 3, 2003 18:43:
I’m agree with Roxrider_USA about it...
we all have an opinion about war,we all have a right to speak about it .... but most of the people here mix up the freedom of speech with freedom to offend other ppl...
i think simple yes or no to the war is enough,(Say “NO” to WAR in your language —is the good example Santi) ,or at least use decent words,try to explain your point ..........who wants more.. use a PRIVATE chat ...
Forums like TDR give us the chance to become well acquainted with people from others countries and with different religion ,to be more human– i mean that it’s dificult to pull the trigger against some of them...
lets use this chance..
and maybe some days topics War woudn’t exist..
Roxrider_USA said on April 3, 2003 18:50:
@Emil_BG: I’m glad some people understand my position. :-).
Take care!
Carlos E., New York.
kachina008 said on April 3, 2003 21:20:
people outta start acting like adults when discussing adult issues. simple.
ps. who is mel? *confused*
powerpoplarry said on April 3, 2003 23:54:
I actually agree with the way things are going here. I see why certain topics were banned, but at least it’s not about the topic at hand, but certain people’s behaviour on those boards.
Yes, I can keep my tongue in check and respect other people’s opinions. HOWEVER, these boards serve a purpose. It opened my eyes, I saw the truth behind this war, and I was able to understand that Bush is guilty and America’s news is all propaganda. Not that I ever trusted Bush.
I appreciate this community, I made lots of great new friends here, and it’s a place to talk about ideas, feelings and thoughts openly, and I learn many things here, cultures and stuff. I’ve always been tolerant, but this place taught me a new level of tolerance.
Let’s behave and that way, no other topics will be banned, deleted or archived...
ally77 said on April 2, 2003 20:30:
Well said Santi, spot on I could not have put it better myself!