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American's not to be first on the Moon!
46 replies
Th_Th said on February 19, 2003 09:09:
I strongly believe, that America was not the first Nation to be on the Moon. I believe it all has been a Hollywood Production. I am not just saying this to tease someone, I am saying this, because I strongly believe this, and let me tell you why I have come to this conclusion.
A few years ago, I watched the TV documentation about America being the first to land on the moon. While watching it, it suddenly hit me. Everybody knows the scene, when Armstrong comes out of the Spaceship. He is filmed from an angle, that leaves it open for a new discussion, which is: “Wasn’t the camera Man the First Man on the Moon?” How else would they have been able to film it like that?? See Armstrongs picture arriving on the moon: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/hires/as11_40... It is not the best and I am looking for an even better one. But you all know what I am talking about anyway.
Th_Th said on February 19, 2003 10:28:
Wow Judith! Your dream is amazing!
You know, I actually believe, that the Americans felt under too much pressure, as they were not the first ones in space. So they had to proof themselves to be the first on the moon. Everybody knew, that other Nations, (Russia for example) was much better off with space travelling etc.
so I believe America’s pride was hurt and they made this all up to be “The Worlds Best” in Space Travelling...
Jud (moderator) said on February 19, 2003 12:33:
dunno i didnt think over this subject so much, i dreamed about that looong ago.. just now when I read this i remembered about it :P
coyboyusa said on February 19, 2003 15:03:
and this is indeed why the world has fallen into the hopeless heroless realm that it is..who cares who was there if A man set foot on the moon its an amazing achievement move on
Th_Th said on February 19, 2003 15:58:
Why are you telling me to move on?? Flippen heck... I am not supporting liars at all. So I do voice my opinion. Of course it is great that the human race found a way to get to the moon. But why claim to be the first to have achieved it, if you haven’t?
Roxrider_USA said on February 19, 2003 16:05:
Have you guys noticed how many threads which discuss US and Europe differences and dislikes have been created lately? Damn, what’s wrong ?
That’s y i say that human-beings are flawed and the reason for all our world problems and sadness. Not even diseases make people suffer and fight each other this much.
Saddened.
Carlos E., New York.
Santi said on February 19, 2003 16:27:
I don’t see any problem with the pictures. Mechanical arms are very commonly used by NASA (in the Shuttles you see images from places that there’s no one, and you get to watch astronauts working... how can it be? Mechanical arms). It’s obvious they thought such a moment deserved a good image and used this “trick” to get the best view possible, because the first person on the moon it’s an important thing.
In addition a lot of material was taken with them and has been studied in many universities and centres all around the world and it’s definitely non-terrestrial. This has been stated by prestigious scientists, people in who everyone can rely.
And then again, we have images from Venus and Mars surface and nobody has ever been there (Venus’ ones I think they were taken by Venera Russian series of spacecrafts).
So this is what I think, I hope I solved your doubt.
Santi said on February 19, 2003 16:30:
1 more thing. If an American was not the first person on the moon then no person has ever walked on the moon, since just Americans have been there.
coyboyusa said on February 19, 2003 23:22:
i think itsa just really sad how peopel like to take shots at other peoples achievement cause they can’t ddo it themselves...rejoice int he fact we actually..and hopefully will still have a space program
coyboyusa said on February 19, 2003 23:24:
oh and btw that picture isn’t fromt he moon landing its taken from a movie about it
LittleSpooky said on February 20, 2003 00:35:
coyboy’s right, that is a movie shot. I just can’t remember which movie that’s from, it’s REALLY familiar to me. The “original” is much more grainy and fuzzy. That one’s practically chrystal clear. Beyond that, I can’t tell you much. And the other thing coy’s right about, no one else but USA has been to the moon yet. Russia was the first to send a man in space, I believe it was Cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin that was the first MAN in space. They attempted to go to the moon but scrapped the project in 1974 after many failures.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_manned_lunar.html (This is the site I used for Russia’s information)
http://www.nasm.edu/apollo/apollo.htm (This is the Apollo Missions including Buzz Aldrin’s walk on the moon)
coyboyusa said on February 20, 2003 09:52:
spooky is right ..china right now is poised to be the third country in the world to put a man in space and if they succeed by 2020 the want to put a ma ont he moon themselves quite amazing :)
the movie is either apollo 13 or man on the moon
or uhm god theres like a dozen movies its from
Santi said on February 20, 2003 09:58:
@LS: “And the other thing coy’s right about, no one else but USA has been to the moon yet.” Well... that was said by me. :D
I doubt it’s from a movie like Apollo 13, even if I haven’t seen it, because that mission NEVER was on the moon. And I doubt a lot the oficial NASA website shows a picture that it’s not theirs without mentioning the source, mostly because they could be sued for that and because they didn’t have any problem to get such a pic. Remember that it is a picture, not a shot from the TV broadcast. In that time TV still was bad quality and black and white but photography was not, and that is why it’s so clear.
Santi said on February 20, 2003 10:27:
Anyway, and how do you get to know that’s actually the pic for the first man??? Can’t it be a second time just for taking the pic? You can’t see well the ground and you can’t see if someone had been walking it before :O
In fact NASA’s website states that the man walking down is not Neil Armstrong but Edwin Aldrin, and that the pic was taken by Armstrong from the ground “with a 70mm lunar surface camera during the Apollo 11 extravehicular activity”. Link: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/html/as11_40_...
Another idea to reinforce the idea that it’s not taken from a movie is that if you go to the menu of all those pics http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/ndxpage2.html and look at the other that we know for sure they were real like http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/html/as11_40_... , actually they are the same quality :O
I hope everyone believes this was real now... The first man walking on the moon actually you can watch him in http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/html/s69_4258... . The shots from TV live broadcast looked like this.
Santi said on February 20, 2003 11:20:
@coyboyusa: In fact Europe also has a space program and had a shuttle program too. The Shuttle program was approved by the European Space Agency (ESA) in 1987 but it got cancelled in 1996 after the very first rocket Ariane 5 that would be used for launching our shuttle (called Hermes) had an accident in the launching. It went out of its path and exploded. http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9710/30/ariane.launch/ariane.explo.15.561.mov
But everything goes on and many of ESA astronauts that would have been in HERMES have been involved in NASA programs. I think Europe is in better position for a “third country”.
coyboyusa said on February 20, 2003 12:47:
perhaps but china and japan for the most part have a hell of a lot more invested financially i9n space especially since china has for the most part been shut out of the intl space station. As for actualy pictures of people on the moon the only ones that do exist weere taken after the men left the landing module ...the fact u see no stars, no lunar surface suggests that it may even be a promotional picture which nasa has used in the past. The only people who vehemntly denied the idea of america landing on the moon were the communists during the cold war. Landing on the moon wasn’t anything so incredible at least not compared to what we could be cap[able of if nations set aside their neeed for propriety of discovery and the like....if they did that we could be on mard in less than 30 years
Roxrider_USA said on February 20, 2003 16:26:
@Santi: Nice usage of quotation marks! “Third country”. :-)!
Take care!
Carlos E., New York!
Santi said on February 20, 2003 22:25:
About the stars in the sky, that has a very logical explanation. Actually it’s because of the way cameras work. It’s completely normal that even if there were stars in the sky they are not shown.
It has to do with the balance in brightness and contrast. I’m sure you all have seen on TV that when going out from a dark to bright ambience or the other way, cameras need to change (they do automatically) the balance of this two elements. It takes a little time. If you came from dark at the first moment the new image looks burnt, too much brightness... then the camera corrects. The other way changing it’s all black and then the camera corrects.
Now take the situation on the moon. Actually it’s daylight, but as the moon has no atmosphere the sky looks dark. But the objects are under the sunlight, and moon’s surface it’s very bright. The contrast is very high. It’s preferable to “sacrifice” the dark sky and not to burn the images of the light grey surface and the people dressed in white. But that does not mean they were taken in a studio, it’s just a matter of knowing how a camera works.
Actually to take pictures of stars from earth in a clear night is not as easy as just shooting a camera. The stars need some time to become printed in the film because of their low luminosity. If on the moon shot they had to wait until the stars “impressed” the film... all images of astronauts would be burnt. If you don’t believe go out with a normal photocamera on a clear night and take a picture of the sky... you’ll get a cool black pic. ;)
Santi said on July 11, 2003 21:21:
Well, I’ve been hearing a radio program on this subject, and for all the people who still “doubts” about it, you can find all the explanation to what the critics argue in this great website:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html
Jud (moderator) said on July 11, 2003 21:46:
interesting, I haven’t seen that program he talks about, I guess there are many theories and explanations that claim nobody reached the Moon so far...and some may be better than the others.
BUT (there is always a but ;))
this guy is basing his theory in the fact that the “moon is not the Earth” and with how the Moon is *supposed* to be but in fact, has he been there? NO, so both the TV show theories and this guy’s explanations are just that, theories, may be good, may be wrong, but they (all of them) are just based on what it *may* be like, not in real facts, so I guess that until somebody else lands on the Moon and proves / denies those theories.. we won’t know who is right ;)
Now, believe what you want :) **the truth is out there** nananana
Santi said on July 11, 2003 21:50:
Judith, he’s astronomer... no serious astronomer doubts it. Obviously this was a sensacionalist program... like the ones so popular in spain of which nobody should believe a word.
EDIT: Americans have landed at least 4 times (I’m not sure on the exact number) on the Moon... so they have been again there, and the images look alike, yes.
Jackie_Radiorox said on July 11, 2003 21:54:
http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
Check that out.
BTW - Apollo 13 the movie did have shots in the begining about the 1st landing on the moon. That is how the movie starts as people are in Jim Lovell’s home watching it.
I have no doubts that it really occured and was not a hoax.
Now, if somehow it turns out to be a hoax, it was done with good intentions and in a time where America needed some distraction from the Vietnam War.
LittleSpooky said on July 12, 2003 02:21:
Here’s a wild hair... not to dampen this discussion, because I actually like it:
No one can prove 100% one way or the other if anyone went to the moon. Argument for: The men themselves say they did. Argument against: They were sworn to secrecy, and this is the story that was concocted.
What I tell my passengers in a situation similar (not really, but you’ll see in a sec): Unless you can prove to me 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that if I open the doors to let this guy on, that someone won’t come around from behind me and whack him, I’ll let him on. Since you can’t give me that 100% gaurantee (Spell check that), then I’m not opening the doors because it ain’t safe.
So, prove to me 100% either way what happened. Until then, I’ll just believe that it did and it won’t screw my day up any more than it already is.
kachina008 said on July 12, 2003 08:58:
So here’s an honest question:
how come it hasn’t been done again?
Santi said on July 12, 2003 11:31:
Why it hasn’t been done again:
- There’s little glory in coming the second to the moon, so the Russians retired themselves from this race. The Apollo program had to be cancelled because it was the most expensive program ever done, and could not be mantained. Since the most interesting application of astronautics for governments (both Russian and American) was the military spionage they decided to focus the race in this aspect. It’s not that can’t be done or that is not interesting from the scientific point of view. But as you might know, scientists are not in charge when it comes to decide where to spend the money.
- Proofs: Well, actually is not just that a bunch of men said they’ve been there and we have to blindly believe them. It’s much more than that. They were there not just to walk on the moon, they were there in scientific missions, in one of the Apollo’s there was even a geologist, and they brought lots of material. Rock material that can’t have been formed because here the conditions are much different. Here the surface materials are influenced by the gases in the atmosphere and the erosion of water, the edaphogenesis and so on. And those materials are micro-perforated by sunwind particles and the action of micro-meteors... somethings that could never have happened in the earth. And the chemical composition is different as well than from any material on earth.
coyboyusa said on July 12, 2003 12:49:
its amazing people r so envious of american success that they wana say we faked it. Get over it
derek said on July 13, 2003 20:17:
i dont care who was first .billions of $ wasted and on what. a floating rock future generations might see some benifit but we wont and to tell the truth i dont give a flying ...
Ferdan said on July 14, 2003 01:14:
COY, huh?
the main starters of that rumour were Americans,
Americans envious of America?
Shane said on July 14, 2003 02:01:
I doubt the Moon Landing was faked - “smaller” incidents (like President Clinton’s fling with Monica Lewinsky) have been revealed because someone has always willing to sell out the secret. Seriously people - faking a moon landing would have involved tons of people - you mean to tell me that every single person involved would have kept this secret? Come on - if it were a lie, some one would have signed a book deal by now and made a fortune!!!
And....as I recall from high school, the photo I saw of the first man on the moon was taken from behind (like a person who would have been standing behind) , not the side.
TinyBubbles said on July 15, 2003 01:52:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Santi said on July 15, 2003 14:55:
Well, Adam, I though the next one would be that the earth in fact is flat :p But that’s a good one too :D
coyboyusa said on July 16, 2003 13:11:
no americans didnt start the rumpurs the russians did then the chinese then they psycho neo christian movent
XDMC said on January 21, 2004 15:38:
Yeb ya right.. America fake the whole thing so they would not lose face to the Soviet Union. Donald Rumsfeld and Collen Pow addmited that it was all a fake for some documentry. They showed in Australia a few months bak. But what i want to know is that who was the first man on the moon really... Me thinks the Soviets would have actually been the first.
Santi said on January 21, 2004 20:19:
Come on :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Does anybody understand English?
If it was not an American, nobody has been yet!!! No other country has EVER sent a human to the moon...
Jud (moderator) said on January 21, 2004 20:55:
who the hell cares anyway? our life won’t be better just because sb woow was in the moon, no wait, our life IS not better...
Echoes_of_a_Doubt said on January 22, 2004 09:35:
That is actuallu something that really pisses me off, the unbelievable crazy amoount of money that is spent on investigating space! As Judith said, does it improve our lifes? No, not at all, just imagine how much good the money could do in the world, for the third world countries for instance...
Jud (moderator) said on January 22, 2004 16:06:
LOL Thomas :D We have had the answer there for long and we didn’t see it!!! :D Now, WHO’s that girl? Madonna?
nacona said on March 17, 2004 18:46:
Technically Yuri wasnt the first man in space either :P
American Scott Crossfield broke the Earth’s Atmo many times between 1959 and 1961 in NAA’s X-15.
Just a bit of useless trivia for ya’s :)
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/X-15/HTML/E-9543.html
(edit:gnilleps)
city_girl said on March 19, 2004 03:46:
they could of had a rover that had a camera that was put on the moon to tape everything or yeah it was probably taped from Earth like on a satellite or somthin. but to think that we faked it is just childish stupidity. i agree-get over that we hav done so many things. u can’t change the past.
Tanya82 said on March 20, 2004 16:26:
The most important thing is who was the 1st man in space. It was a RUSSIAN guy :))))))))
Jud (moderator) said on February 19, 2003 10:09:
now that you say this, once I had a dream about this :O
I dreamt that somebody was appearing on TV on an exclusive report saying and showing that this was all recorded on earth and that the person had proofs (all recorded and pictures and conversations between somebody in NASA bla bla). And that in the end the US goverment admitted it was all fake.
It was just a dream though :) Afterwards I thought about it, and thought that knowing that US space shuttles are not the best (Russians ones are more secure, and unfortunatelly, we have had to “live” Columbias accident :( ) - anything could be. I wonder why they haven’t been there again.