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2 Year Jail, because of burnig an American Flag!!!
75 replies
Th_Th said on February 17, 2003 16:36:
This happened in Ohio, just a couple of years ago. SOme Americans were demonstrating against the US and one woman burned an American Flag and was put to Prison for two years because of it!
Sickening! This doesn’t look like a free country to me! Where is the freedom of speech now???
Sickening, that’s what it is!!!
coyboyusa said on February 17, 2003 17:48:
ur desicratinga national emblem i remember in russia they used to kill you for desecrating the flag
coyboyusa said on February 17, 2003 17:49:
hundreds of thousands of ppel died to protct tat flag buringing it is desecraton its horrible u don’t like the county leave man leave
Vixzter said on February 17, 2003 19:11:
This would have to be one of the first times I’m agreeing with coy ;)
Not only is it desicrating (however its spelt) a national embalem....its also an insult to the ppls that live in that country....infact its one of the worst insults that can be made.
Santi said on February 17, 2003 20:47:
In Russia they were other times... anyway, destroying such things is a crime in Spain too... I don’t want to discuss if that’s bad or good.
I bet in Germany it’s a crime too.
vaxjoe said on February 17, 2003 20:50:
coy: a blizzard! i ve never seen one!
santi and all: i think its a crime burning a flag in most countries...its not bout the flag itself, its bout what the flag stands for...
Santi said on February 17, 2003 20:56:
Yeah, but well... I’m gonna enter the discussion :D
I know that’s like that (the same as the national song, the king image and all those things), but Spanish Government for years was destroying for decades symbols of other people inside the country, like Basque ikurriña... That was never a crime, and still today, I doubt it is (even if it is it’s not persecuted). Anyway 2 years jail for such a thing is much more than “something normal”. In Spain and most civilizated countries I guess with €300 is all fixed...
Jud (moderator) said on February 17, 2003 21:24:
Gosh if they had put in jail all ppl who burned a Catalan flag...there would be no fachas left :P
wendy said on February 17, 2003 21:29:
Pathetic.............
America is God,at least that’s what they think
“Do what you want,but don’t harm America”
Oh,am i some terrorist now??? :O
Jud (moderator) said on February 17, 2003 21:39:
LOL Wendy. Well sure it is a “crime” to burn a flag, but 2 years of jail... :O Now i wonder if we all have been reported to FBI for all the “anti-war” stuff we have written here. Shall we expect some agent to knock on our door requiring us to go with him cuz we are suspected to be terrorists? ;)))
sweet_stalker57 said on February 18, 2003 01:56:
blizzard? that’s what you get for living in Jersey.
poor you, I’ll be surfing in the sun tomorrow! :p
LittleSpooky said on February 18, 2003 04:26:
While this may be against the law in some / most states, the jail sentence is just WRONG. I’m gonna quote a movie here. Don’t laugh, because it makes GOOD sense. Whoever wrote this speech is a GREAT writer! The movie is “American President” with Michael Douglas (President Andrew Shepard) and Annette Benning (President’s girlfriend, Sydney Ellen Wade) (Martin Sheen and Richard Dreyfuss and Michael J. Fox in supporting roles). The speech is in the last 20 minutes or so of the movie:
“America isn’t easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, cuz it’s gonna put up a fight. It’s gona say ’You want free speech? Let’s see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who’s standing centre stage, and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a life time opposing at the top of yours.
’You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that. Defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms, THEN you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.’ “
The set up: The President (Douglas) began dating a woman, Sydney Ellen Wade (Benning) while he was in office and his opponent, Sen. Bob Rumson (Dreyfuss) had an aide dig stuff up on Wade and what was discovered was a 13 year old picture of a flag being burnt in protest of the practice of aparthied. Yep. Burning a flag in protest of something that people oppose to begin with. See where this is going?
The jail sentence is just flat out WRONG. (*looks around for her echo* Yes, I stated this, but it bears to be repeated.) *****MY OPINION ONLY*****
Roxrider_USA said on February 18, 2003 04:43:
@Judith: Friend, i think you exaggerated a bit, don’t you think ? :-)
I really believe that burning a flag should be a crime!! Imagine someone burning his/her country’s own flag. It’s just wrong. it’s the same as saying you hate the land you were born on and lived your whole life.
@coyboyusa: Yeah, i lived through the blizzard too here in White Plains , New York! (Just 30 minutes northe of NYC). It’s all paralized.
@Santi: “In Spain and most civilizated countries I guess with €300 is all fixed...”. Friend, be careful with that sentence. It can be very dangerous and insulting with misunderstood.
Take care! Stop the hate! Stay warm!
Carlos E., New York.
Majdy said on February 18, 2003 04:58:
I don’t like people burning a flag, wheter their own or other’s country.
LittleSpooky said on February 18, 2003 05:01:
Oh, and Wendy, I don’t think America is God. I wish you would stop lumping ALL Americans together. And don’t say that you’re not, because I’ve caught you twice with erroneous statements. This being the second one. Lucky for your fellow countrymen that I don’t judge them all by you, now isn’t it?
I’ve found many wonderful people here on TDR that are NOT of the sterotypes of “their people”, their fellow countrymen. I will admit in front of everyone here, that MOST Americans are downright stupid and ignorant of the rest of the world and how it operates. HOWEVER, there are those of us who conduct world business, who deal with “foreigners” every day that find out just EXACTLY what people in other lands think.
People like Zeeshan and Aaso are different than how Middle Easterners are shown. They’re DEFINITELY not terrorists. But when someone says they’re from that region, I’ll bet dollars to pesos that someone automatically assumes that person is a terrorist, and out to bomb something. RIIIIIIIIIIGHT *heavy sarcasm here). Same thing with the Irish (poor bastards got the bad rap for A LONG time, because of the actions of a few). I bet vaxjoe’s the typical Greek: Tall, dark, handsome, wonderful in bed... whups... *lol* Sorry Vax. I work with a Greek guy and I tease him to NO end about that. I don’t mean to let any secrets out ;o)
Anyway, the long and short of it is: Please quit making assumptions, that’s what’s gotten us in such bad shape to begin with.
Jud (moderator) said on February 18, 2003 08:23:
@Roxrider_USA: it was a JOKE!! :P see the “;)))” by the end of the sentence......
and besides that.. ihave said more than once that I hate Spain, and even though almost 8 years ago I thought that the president Aznar could maybe make something out of Spain, he turned out to be a “camouflaged” Franco in the last 2 years, so I have talked bad about him... and? :)
And I think here is the “problem”... I am not sure about all countries in Europe, but in Spain people normally complain about their president, their country, their shitty city.. etc, and it is the most normal thing, very very few would find it WRONG... and I have lately felt that for some of you (from the US) talking bad about your own country is like talking bad about your mother, could it be? I can surely take jokes about Spain - sure I will laugh out loud.. while some of you can’t.. I guess it is all about the way we were all educated and raised :)
Th_Th said on February 18, 2003 08:27:
Of course it is wrong do burn a flag. I didn’t say it is not bad, but I think, to go to prison for it is just WRONG. In Germany we have got lots of Turkish people, and I even witnessed quite a few times how some Turks burned the German flag in City Centres and then I understand if people say, “Just leave our country, go home, what are you doing here if Germany is so horrible???”
But it is a different story if it is your own countries flag you are burning, as you can not just leave the country you live in. It is an expression of anger and total confusion. I think it is just wrong, send someone to Prison for burning a flag, gosh, the German Prison would be overflown by the Turkish!!!
Santi said on February 18, 2003 13:54:
So can’t I hate “my” country if I want? Can’t I hate Spain if I decide it’s definitely what I don’t like? I’m not saying I do, but freedom should be freedom. I think people is too much hypocrital sometimes.
You don’t really have to agree all the time and love everything in the place you live in (living in Sweden I learnt that when 2 inmigrants meet they talk about all the bad things of the country they’re living in... people is like that). I don’t hate Spain but I don’t like it. Many Spaniards have hated me enough just for being a Basque living in another part of the country... why should I love that? Because my ID Card says I was born in Spain? :O
If freedom was freedom the place where I was born wouldn’t even be called Spain...
And sincerely, I can make a joke about The Basque Country. I make a lot with my friends. Even if my “country” is known for the terrorist actions against Spain and France (I am totally against them... in case someone here thinks also I’m a terrorist like my neighbours and classmates when I was in school), we are friendly people. But we must be Spaniards. We’re forced to.
In case someone wonders Spain is a big experiment, of how 1 nationality (Castilian) can be in power over some other. They try to “sell” that we like bullfighting, flamenco, sevillanas and that all those things is “our” culture. Well, it’s not mine, I have different roots... Their flag is the flag in my ID card... and means also all this, also centuries of hatred against the other nationalities... at least I have freedom in my bedroom and I have which I consider my flag...
I really think many peoples are in this situation. I really think all flags should be “burnable”, because they all represent opression, they represent war (even the Basque flag)... to quote a good Spanish singer call Joaquín Sabina someone should write the “song of the damage that flags do”.
I would love to know what the “star spangled banner” means to the native americans whose relatives were exterminated under the “freedom” brought with that banner. I would really like to listen to them talking straight from the heart, if they were able to talk free, if that so-called “freedom land” was actually free. (I say because jail for that... there is too much paranoia I think...)
@Roxrider: I said “most”, not “all”. And “civilizated” because a state that kills someone for burning a flag is not. Human beings should be above symbols, in my humble opinion.
Roxrider_USA said on February 18, 2003 19:36:
@Santi: I don’t see why you say kill. It was said ” jailed for 2 years”. Explain what you mean, please. Moreover, i noticed you stated “most”, friend. I never implied you said “all”. :-)!
@Judith: Concerning your statement about most people in the US taking a joke about the USA personaly, i really believe that such behavior is due to a strong feeling of patriotism. (I’m sure you have noticed how Americans show how patriotic they are). :-)!
Take care, friends.
Carlos E., New York.
Roxrider_USA said on February 18, 2003 19:36:
@Santi: I don’t see why you say kill. It was said ” jailed for 2 years”. Explain what you mean, please. Moreover, i noticed you stated “most”, friend. I never implied you said “all”. :-)!
@Judith: Concerning your statement about most people in the US taking a joke about the USA personaly, i really believe that such behavior is due to a strong feeling of patriotism. (I’m sure you have noticed how Americans show how patriotic they are). :-)!
Take care, friends.
Carlos E., New York.
Santi said on February 18, 2003 19:59:
@Roxrider: Quoting the user “coyboyusa” “in russia they used to kill you for desecrating the flag”. That’s what I meant. I still consider USA to be a civilizated country.
Santi said on February 18, 2003 20:37:
I just heard Hendrix version of Star Spangled Banner (USA National Anthem) live in Woodstock’69 with his guitar. That’s what he felt for his country (anger), again because of a war... and he destroyed an emblem in from of thousands of people. I guess with president Bush he would have faced 5 years prison, but it didn’t happen :)
It’s a pitty there are no people like Hendrix around anymore, he was true to himself at least (Britney doing the same :O... I doubt it a lot...)
StillFar said on February 18, 2003 20:50:
Roxrider, didn’t quite get your point why I shouldn’t be entitled to hate the country I was born in. I actually think it’s crucial to judge your own country and their leaders. The problem about the states, the way I see it, is that you basically only receive one side of the story. US Americans seem to believe very much in whatever is presented to them without questioning the reliability. I think, it’s the obligation of a good citizen to stand up and protest when the country isn’t lead the way it’s supposed to be…I’m not sure if you are unaware of how much the worldwide opinion about the US changed during the last two years. The world felt bad for what happened September 11, but instead of taking that ‘opportunity’ to make the world a friendlier place, everything was done to achieve the contrary. In my opinion, Bush and his fellows are presently changing the future of the United States, in a way that is not good for your country, but unfortunately the public can’t see that. Would there be more citizens standing up against what is wrong, maybe we wouldn’t be at the point we are today….
coyboyusa said on February 18, 2003 23:04:
since obviously thins post is turning into america bashing again i will only post to it one more time. Yeah vix we got 24 inches of snow where I live..it was horrible I am still digging neighbours cars out. No america doesn’t think they are god ...but when other countries turn to us repeatedly for aid arbitration etc isn’t the rest of the world to some degree putting us into the role of a world protectorate. ANd buring a counties flag..any country should be incredibly offensive. I mean if I went around buring a torah or a koran or a bible people would flip...and all that is is a book :)
Ferdan said on February 19, 2003 00:18:
I´ve seen this kind of topic in another forum, some said burning your own flag was a right... and it even was protected in the First Amendment.
Because burning a flag is a kind of speech... if you ban it you are banning freedom of speech. But it also depends in the situation or the message.. i can’t remember.
“if you don’t like the country then leave”
where’s in there the great freedom your country was really proud about?... it looks it’s fading more and more with the time... when a tree loses its roots... dies.
Ferdan said on February 19, 2003 00:27:
http://www.spectacle.org/296/flag.html
http://www.pbs.org/jefferson/enlight/flag.htm
kinda out of the topic but interesting
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html
“The New American - Flag Burning Is Not the Issue - April 1, 1996”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/departments/feature/1999/062799.htm
Roxrider_USA said on February 19, 2003 00:42:
@Santi: Thanks, got you! :-)!
@Stillfar: Judging is quite different from hating. I agree with you when you say we should judge our country in order to guide it into a better path. However, when someone says that he/she hates his/her own country is misjudged in most cases. In most instances, people refer to the people in the country (those who have all the power and can decide how well or badly the country goes) and not the actual country (the land and the culture). Do you really hate the land you were born on or you hate the politics and how the powerful ones in your country lead it?
Peace out!
Carlos E., New York.
vaxjoe said on February 19, 2003 04:24:
little_spooky:actually thats who i am! how do u know? who told u? Omg! someone u know, knows me too!!! ;o)
yeah beyond kidding....though as u said a typical description it has its truth...and i love actually the thought that others see us like this!!!
*big kiss to spooky*
*steps up on a chair*
1-2 testing!! ok i’d like to take this opportunity to say what i was thinking again over and over so PLEASE I NEED YOUR ATTENTION!!! JUST THIS ONCE!!!
I need a favour! I’d like us all to try expressing our opinion without addressing the person that we disagree...cause this creates hostility among us!! and when the crisis is over we’d be here left with a bitter taste of regret or even guilt that we got in an argument with someone!!!
Look, ppl have their opinions and most of us are too stubborn to get our mind changed!!! And quite honestly the ppl that decide the destiny of this planet they dont care bout us so no matter what they ll do what they got to do...so lets not do them the favour! lets not fight...our unity is the answer to them...
LOVE IS ALL! Nikos!
Vixzter said on February 19, 2003 06:54:
Freedom of speech is a load of bollox anyway......if you don’t get put in jail for what you say you probably end getting sued by someone for what you what you say! so there :P doesn’t sound like free to me ;P no matter what country you happen to be in.
LittleSpooky said on February 19, 2003 07:11:
Vax: So why aren’t you here with me like you’re S’POSED to be. I’ve been waiting.....;o)
Oh... whups... *blushes crimson* Sorry folks... this should be posted somewhere else, I’m sure.
*snickers*
*huggles to vax*
vaxjoe said on February 19, 2003 08:08:
hehe i wish i was there to give u a big hug! but no worries as u said u have one greek over there :p i hope hes nice to u *hugs*
LittleSpooky said on February 19, 2003 09:02:
Yeah, Nick and I get along great. We work outta separate divisions though. His wife is about as strange as he is and has a wonderful sense of humour. Last time I saw her though was back when I still worked out of the other division (back in 99), and when I played in a Table Tennis tournament.
And I could ALWAYS use a good hug *grins*
vaxjoe said on February 19, 2003 09:08:
my name is Nick too...i think not many ppl know it yet in here! hehe! :o) hmm now i wanna change my screen name...but no...i dont wanna be a freshman again :p
coyboyusa said on February 20, 2003 09:56:
i have the freedom to say what i want flag burining would be like bulldozing the eiffle tower or the louvre its taking something incredibly sacred and destroying it its like being a taliban and burining evry religious scroll in all the mosques...
and as for the freedom in my country it is quite well and alive and i am right love it or leave it if you are so damn disatisfied and you think where you came from is so much better leave noone is holding you here just go :)
Santi said on February 20, 2003 10:01:
Ahhhh... so you’re a taliban of your flag.... good to know...
Santi said on February 20, 2003 10:08:
By the way, most times inmigrants can’t decide to “leave”. They’re depending on the money they get in the country where they’re living (many times “surviving”) not only for them, but also for their families in their home countries. It’s not as easy, don’t think so simple...
coyboyusa said on February 20, 2003 12:50:
well they are the ones who had this inflated ideal of what this country has to offer...and to be honest we bend over backwards more now than ever to make it easier for them to come ehre ..i don’t know any country on the planet that offeres a driving test in 10 different languages....there various forms of financail aid etc...its absurd there are still starving people in my country and yet my taxes go to help people who are unwilling to improve their country or looking to exploit mine to come here..... don’t get me wrong I am all for controlled immigration but its gotten out of hand
StillFar said on February 20, 2003 13:51:
coyboy, what you’re saying is so stupid..you know that you wouldn’t be in the states if not for immigrating?
coyboyusa said on February 20, 2003 22:36:
you’re mis interpreting what i am trying to say/ I am not anit-immigration...all I am sying is todays immigranta most are oppotunists ...past immigration there weren;’t thewre ridiculous backward bend over to kiss thier butts systems in place. when my great grand parents came over they had to learn the langugae get jobs etc..now u come here they set u up with a stipend or u can get welfare and they provied you with literature in you own language about everything...its out of control
Roxrider_USA said on February 21, 2003 01:41:
@coyboy: I’m from Brazil and i’ve been living ing the US for almost 6 years now. When i got here, i had to learn English, get used to the culture and everything else. When i got to high school i remember i was totally lost ’ cause i couldn’t understand a thing. Yet, i managed to survive and now i’m about the get my Associate’s Degree in Math and Science and transfer to Stony Brook University in Long Island, NY. No one in my family here in the US depends on wellfare, even though my dad doesn’t work during the winer time ’cause his job has a winter recess. I personally believe that wellfare is quite flawed since it gives financial aid to people who can actually work but don’t work ’cause they are lazy and “smart”. Nothing i have was given to me and i take nothing for granted.
But , yeah , i agree with you.. many immigrants think they are too smart and take advantage of the help given in a wrong way.
Take care!
Carlos E., New Yor!
sweet_stalker57 said on February 21, 2003 02:34:
one of my favorite songs by Easterhouse: get back to Russia.
it is about the love it or leave it hillbilly mentality.
“get back to Russia I hear you say, get back to Russia but there ain’t no way... England made me right here I’ll stay, England made me let England deal with me”
LittleSpooky said on February 21, 2003 06:49:
Coyboy is right to a point. You said yourself Carlos, that you learned the language. But there are a lot of people who REFUSE to do so. These are the people that go to the Mexican/Vietnamese/Laotian/etc leaders in their community and demand that something is done to assist them. My ancestory traces back to what is now Russia and several other states in the former Soviet Union. Each time someone in the family immigrated, they learned the language, culture, and customs of where they were moving.
Either that or die. However, a lot of the immigrants to this country don’t learn the language because they know that someone will assist them that speaks their language. And it is allowed. In fact, just today on the news, a company down in Provo, Utah (40 miles south of Salt Lake City) INS went in and arrested about 120 people. While some of them were indeed US citizens, most were Mexican Nationals that are here illegally.
The hispanic community is in an outrage, yet these people are here illegally and if they would stop and think, it is the illegals that make it bad for everyone. I have NOTHING against someone who wants to come to the US to live and work. However, please learn the language. The same is expected of me if I go to some places in Germany, Russia, Scotland, and other countries that have English as a SECONDARY language. Did you know that the US is one of the only countries in the world with NO official language? That’s right, some jag-off decided that it would be Unconstitutional to make English the primary language, yet that is .... well, that would be a lie.
I think Spanish (Mexican and other such dialects of it) is now the primary language of the US. With the exception of places along Canada, where French is fairly prevalent.
The point is... *shrugs* I forgot really. Just felt like wastin some air here.... :o)
Vixzter said on February 21, 2003 06:54:
Oh no....we’re onto imigration now O_O
I’d put down how I feel but it will probably end in a flame war so whats the point .
@Spooks : LOL at last line ;)
tevensso (moderator) said on February 21, 2003 10:45:
Burning the American flag is not a crime anymore, but Congress wants to reinstate that law. Unsuccessfully so far.
StillFar said on February 21, 2003 14:11:
Immigrants learning languages, well, this isn’t about the States, this is about immigration everywhere. I was working in Germany a in hotel a couple of years ago, close to a US Army base. We had a lot of Americans staying there for long times (3-5 years). I don’t remember one of them saying one word in German. Americans who moved to my area to work for Mercedes, IBM and HP…I remember only one woman who actually learned how to say “Guten Tag” and “Auf Wiedersehen”. Now in Quebec, it’s just the same, I have quite a lot of Americans around me…you think anyone put some effort in learning French?
Starrox said on February 21, 2003 15:32:
Mercedes, IBM and HP... sounds like you were somewhere near Böblingen/Sindelfingen ;-)
Starrox said on February 21, 2003 15:53:
Well, I’ve been living near those towns for almost all my life... I guess that shows *g*
Vixzter said on February 21, 2003 17:07:
@stilly : why learn another language when ppls all speak English anways ;) *oh no.....flame war about to start* that was a joke btw for anyone who doesn’t like my sense of humour ;P
Roxrider_USA said on February 21, 2003 18:49:
@stillfar: I think you should remember that English is the main language of the world. But yeah, that’s not an excuse. See here in the US some many people speak Spanish that i’m learning Spanish on purpose.
Carlos E., New York.
Ferdan said on February 22, 2003 00:10:
If a language dissapears, also dissapears a way of thinking, a way of seeing life with different eyes.
Why?... cos language is one of the windows from the mind to the “real” world, thinking is really linked to language. It’s kinda subtle.
coyboyusa said on February 22, 2003 00:18:
noone is suggesting we abolish certain languages but don’t you find it incredibly rude that peopel will talk another language when you walk into a room cause they don’t perhaps want you to hear a converstion..its inccredibly rude or u know they r talking baout you. besides the fact how muhc money should my country waste setting up all sorts of services for these peopel who supposedly want to be american but have no desire to immerse themselves in the country or the language..aside fromt he fact that so many of them are illegal meaning they taxe services set up for actual citizens and don’t pay a damn dollar of tax money to them. I am sorry but after 9111 peopel who aren’t citizens or aren’t here illegallly don’t belong in my couintry
sweet_stalker57 said on February 22, 2003 01:54:
9111?
couintry?
peopel?
hell they could just speak english and you would be clueless. =p
LittleSpooky said on February 22, 2003 08:45:
Like I said, I just felt like wastin air. *lol*
And who-ever made the comment about Americans in a foreign country, you’re right. They expect the world to conform to them. “I speak English only, therefore YOU must conform to ME.” Crock of crap if you ask me.... *shrugs*
Anyway, I’m gonna go waste some air in the Solitaire game :o)
vaxjoe said on February 22, 2003 08:58:
little spooky:thats so true...but sooner or later the ones who are clever enough adjust to the countries habits...my american friends here at least do! and they love the food and the culture and the landscape...some of the ones i know (the older ones) say its heaven here and they get married and stay here :o)
coyboyusa said on February 22, 2003 12:44:
actually americans don’t expect the entire wordl to speak english its alot of countries that are choosing to teach their peopel english mostly those in the business fields to deal with us interestes...all we as is thta the people that come to live here show enough respect to learn the language i know if i moved to say germany i would learn the language its only right
coyboyusa said on February 22, 2003 12:45:
sweettalk eat me if my typing sucks i am usually on the boards right after work so not only am I tried of seeing all the bullshit on the boards i am also tired from work...
DaminehGessle said on May 23, 2003 23:02:
I was bored so I decided to open the off-topic page and click on page 10! I chose this thread. I don’t feel like discussing my opinions now but Santi, your words brought tears to my eyes. This is beautiful. Very smart. We should all have a picture of Earth on our Ids. For all of us are from the planet Earth.
kachina008 said on May 24, 2003 09:11:
country that allows immigrants in without batting an eyelid = Holland.
talking about immigration, i think europe has a bigger problem with immigrants not integrating etc etc than the states does.
Coyboy: im sure you know what you are talking about, and i agree with you on some points. but lemme ask you, what is the point of putting things in such an aggresive way? u come across like you dont know much outside your four walls. or do u do that on purpose?
Ferdan said on May 24, 2003 11:06:
“a lot of the immigrants to this country don’t learn the language ” by spooky
it is not because someone will assist them like you said, they don’t learn the language cos they don’t feel accepted in your society, just like some black people don’t feel accepted. Not learning english is just a psycological response to that rejection, just like making groups with other people of their origin, staying out of a total mix of cultures.
Black people have over a hundred years living in the US and they still don’t feel totally accepted and preffer to be with the people of their origin...
i find that so unaceptable from both sides...
anyway, that’s one of the reasons of latin people not learning the english language (asides that english is not the official US language)
coyboyusa said on May 24, 2003 11:56:
well my ideals r called nationalism...i dont think peopel have any respect here wats so ever for the things pepel have sacrificed to have such a great country. ever country on this earth has a national dialect mostly...ameirca is becoming this pacifist nation ...we dont discipline our kids, we open immigration so terrorists can bomb us, instead of making people learn to red and write we creat alternative programs ..its just ridiculous
coyboyusa said on May 24, 2003 11:57:
and learnign the language isn’t about acceptance really. there r peopel here who have lived here all their lives and dont speak a shred of english..well they do if you short their paycheck, but they insist i must pay tax dollars so they can have everyhting trandslated into their language for them..thats just not right
coyboyusa said on May 24, 2003 12:00:
and the whoel black issue is 2 sided as well.
black youth have no respect for what their own peopel went through to get them free from oppression...illitracy and crminal behavior amongst black youths in american is huge..here in a country where an education is FREE, they still sit at the back of the bus, all congregate at the same lunch tables....they still blame white peopel for everything thats going wrong within their own communities, but they do nothing to police their own peopels behaviors and morals I mean cummon R Kelly is a child molester and he has the number one album and single on the black urban music charts...how can anyone respect that
kachina008 said on May 24, 2003 14:05:
Ferdan: I dunno...the American people I know (north east coast) are VERY friendly. I never felt any discrimination.
Germany and Holland have massive problems with immigration these days. Dutch people are getting tired of whole neighbourhoods “going bad” because of immigrants who refuse to integrate and form their own little groups. unfortunately this also means that the level of crime is also soaring.
At first I was appalled to hear this, since I am essentially a “foreigner” in this country. But I have found out that the Dutch (well, the ones I work with) are very very tolerant towards foreign people. So what is the problem with the immigrants? I am making an effort to integrate, I have a paying job which I work at, and I am not sitting back and waiting for the government to cover my ass with clothes and provide shelter over my head. these people who come into the country take and take. That is why I said that the problems with immigrants is a lot more severe here than in the States.
As for USA, the entire society is based on multitude of cultures. Didn’t someone call america the great melting pot? Coyboy, The type of people you talk about, they are not just “immigrants” they are also fellow americans. I can understand your point about you paying for the welfare system to support people who have a doubtful claim to this support, but it is NOT restricted to just them, now is it.
On the other hand, I have seen people come to the states without speaking a word of english (how these people pass the TOEFL and GRE’s/SAT’s Ill never know)...and that pissed me off too.
As for the “Black vs black” issue, it is true that they as a society shoot themselves in the foot, espcially these days. but who can blame them after years and years of inferiority?
its just really sad.
Ferdan said on May 24, 2003 15:03:
“As for USA, the entire society is based on multitude of cultures. Didn’t someone call america the great melting pot? “
Well, that’s where it shows it lacks of mix of hmmm let’s say “races”.... you have a lot of each race grouped in bits... yeh, it’s a multitude of cultures... but not a blend of cultures, that’s exactly what shows the bad integration... because with time groups should blend... and from what it seems.... that’s not happening.
For example here in Argentina, the inmigration was as big as in the US... and the blend of races and cultures was really high...
well, we didn’t get a lot of african inmigration tho... but slaves were freed a little less than 2 centures ago... and everyone had “full rights”. (except for the aboriginals, sadly)
DaminehGessle said on May 24, 2003 15:34:
This keyboard is very messed up so I will write my paragraphs later.
I just wanted to say here n Canada, we have people from ALL OVER. And guess who brings money to this country?? Chinese, Iranians, Indians and so on. THe richest people in Vancouver are of those I just named. Without money, a country would not grow.
Also dear coyboy, who do you think built America in the first place?? Natives?? NO! Foreign professionals! More than 95% of American professors are from other countries. What do you say about that?? Not many americans have the patience to go through 10 years of school to get a degree! Trust me! I see that here in Canada and as I’ve lived in California for 10 months, I saw it there too.
Anyways this keyboard is sucking.
coyboyusa said on May 25, 2003 17:20:
in terms of the whole welfare thing no its not restricted to just those peoel but they make up the majority of the peopel on the system...and as for the melting pot thing....go to the biible belt area of america and find me a black person i dare yah lol
StillFar said on February 17, 2003 17:17:
well Th_Th, didn’t you know that freedom of speech only applies if it’s in the interest of the government?