vivien said on January 15, 2003 12:59:

I think also that it was strange.

Yet-not-a-fan said on January 15, 2003 13:06:

I have my reasons...I told you, some good ones...I really like Roxette, in fact...

Yet-not-a-fan said on January 15, 2003 13:22:

...i’m not here to disturb you guys, on the contrary...I would like to raise some topics - from time to time - that may sound interesting for you...It’s like a hobby, let’s say...I would like to talk about some lights and shades of M. and P....not being rude or too pushing... but talking openly about things that do not seem to be clear to me at all...I have very little time for this, but I stop sometimes on this site and read some comments of yours...That’s all...I hope I’m welcomed...

Roxeanne said on January 15, 2003 14:57:

don’t wonna seem too stoopid, but:

WELCOME TO 2003!!!!!!!

sorry,
we got other probs today!
rox

wendy said on January 15, 2003 16:40:

hey,psychologist,is this some project for school or what?? :DD

Anyway,many people think they have/had a relationship,and,honestly,i think by myself that it’s not such a weird thought :s

Oscarbcn said on January 15, 2003 19:34:

C’mon Wendy!!! Do you really think the have/had a relationship? I know lots of fans liked the idea but that’s too old :P
Although, to be sincere, there are still people that believe they are a couple. When the Spanish TV announced Marie’s illness they mentioned that she was 50% of duo Roxette. The other 50% was her husband Per Gessle. WHAT A SHAME!

cskendras said on January 15, 2003 19:55:

i know, that this is a difficult topic, but i think marie’s illness is so much more important than something happened years ago...

Santi said on January 15, 2003 22:30:

On Spanish TV they pointed out that they were not a couple last time I saw they talked about them.
I read an article about this. In that time they were not friends anymore. It had become too business, and Marie got married long after Joyride. Since she got married in 1995, 2 years after Per’s wedding when he invited her and she even sang “Here, there and everywhere”.
That’s why it was so strange she didn’t invite him. I actually think Roxette split. The “little” break between 1995 and 1998 was actually a real break. They released two compilations and they went for solo albums they had forgotten for... more than five years...
The got angry at each other because (I read) for Per everything was about the money, or something like that.

So from my point of view, those days after Crash Boom Bang they were no friends.

NickNL74 said on January 16, 2003 00:19:

to Yet-not-a-fan

What’s your point? All seems to be well now.. everybody has a periode in which he or she would like to hold off contact with a certain person.. there is always a reason for that and what it is in this matter.. i couldn’t care less. They have a private life too, you know, so the real reason will contain being a mystery to us. And it all happenend so long ago.. i mean, do you remember what you ate on April 24th 1999? (get the picture?)

So just leave it and focus more on the present time

NickNL74 said on January 16, 2003 00:37:

Last post on this topic:

I have far more believe in Santi’s reply because it sounds very logic seeing the course in which roxette was moving at that time. They both picked up their solocareers and it was doubtfully quiet regarding roxette. Assuming a more serious break up isn’t quite unrealistic to think.

DaminehGessle said on January 16, 2003 02:51:

I agree with Santi too.
Although I have always had this in the back of my mind that Per and Marie had something going on long before. Some of you guys try to make others believe that it’s noone’s business what kind of relationship they were in and so on. The more you analyze things, the more smart you become in anything, sciences and so on.
This is my theory :) which might sound childish but not far from reality. They meet. They start a career. It’s not a sin to like each other when you are working together all the time and going on tours. It is not a sin. Yeah actually Per has been with Asa for quite a long time. In one of the interviews Per mentioned or Marie maybe that Marie was depressed during the Joyride album and that she felt lonely. I don’t have the exact quote. But in reality it happens that two people like each other. Suddenly a third person (here Asa) shows up and the girls gets depressed and ... that is my theory. Hahaha.
I still hear many people thinking Per and Marie are married. I get into huge arguments with people over that.

LittleSpooky said on January 16, 2003 06:28:

Since I don’t know either Mr. Gessle, Mr. Bolyos, Ms. Fredriksson, or any of the other members of Roxette and clan, I cannot comment on the exclusion.

I think that we should accept her decision as it is. We can all sit ’round and discuss this until were multi-coloured in the face and it all will boil down to one thing: We’re NOT her. WE didn’t make the decision. She did and bully for her on her decision. I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here by tossing a wet blanket over everything, but what’s done is done. None of us have a time machine to go back and change the past.

We need to respect her decision.

Schmetterling said on January 16, 2003 09:21:

As I said before...give those lads some privacy!!

Jud (moderator) said on January 16, 2003 09:45:

god, this happened years ago!! if you are so curious, why don’t you go and ask Marie yourself next time you meet her in the street? See what she answers :P
“none of your business” is my bet :DD

Santi said on January 16, 2003 11:44:

@NickNL74: Per and Åsa met for the first time in 1984. Per and Marie met for the first time in 1978. Per and Marie Fredriksson work together since 1981 (“Ingenting av vad du behöver”), that’s long before he met Åsa.

I think you as psychologist realise people change. And relationships between people change too. To add something more to my theory just remember that until 1997 they weren’t together again, when Marie Fredriksson joined Gyllene Tider on stage in Halmstad, to sing (just for you to realise how meaninful it is) GT’s song “När alla vännerna gått hem” (“when all the friends have gone home”). I think they made friends again to give life Roxette. I even think the song “I’ll be alright” included in Per’s solo album “The World According To Gessle” in which Marie Fredriksson sings backing vocals was recorded for Roxette in the Crash Boom Bang times. Maybe he just showed the song to her and told her: “we sound so good together... won’t you come back? :D”

Yet-not-a-fan said on January 16, 2003 12:47:

To harriej:
I didn’t mean to write with CAPITALS, but something happened to my keyboard...but then the problem was fixed...
To Santi:
I think I have to agree with you...it’s a very possible explanation...It makes sens...
To Th_Th:
...or I might agree with you - another possibility. Thanks guys for the information..I began to picture the concourse of events...
To Twilight Ghost:
...well, maybe...

To Roxeanne, Cskendras, NICKNL74 and others:
Of course there are Roxette topics more important than this one...I’ve never said that Marie’s illness or the new single are less important...Of course you all are present-oriented and of course that’s good...But still, there are thousands of discussions on these present matters so, you should enter and discuss them as much as you like...If there is only ONE discussion regarding the past doesn’t seem to me that makes you look nostalgic or something like that...The present things are always connected with the past ones. You probably do something in this very moment only because some time ago you did/thought about a certain thing...
I myself look at all these Roxette discussions as being a WHOLE - different matters, different interests, then and now, problems, jokes, ironical thoughts, analysis, comments, small-talks and so on.Nobody said that you have to discuss this particular subject if you don’t really want it...
On the other hand, is not important what I ate on 24th of Apr. 1997, but is VERY important that 5 years ago I myself decided not to invite my best friend at my wedding (my partner was involved in this decision too...and the things are more complicated, so I can’t describe them right now...)Today, I still feel ashame for what I’ve done, even if, at that moment, it made sens to do that, and it was the best choice for all of us...Still, my relationship with that friend was very much changed since that moment. I still feel terrible and I could never discuss openly with her this problem...She seems to avoid it all the time, but that decision meant a lot for we both: it was a SIGNAL for her (what reasons did I have to do that?) and for me it was a picture of the REACTION that came from her side(she acted quite strange after that incident...)So, that little problem affected us a lot...
I am not saying that P’s absence at M’s wedding was a tragedy, I’ve never said it was a wrong/good decision, I’ve just said that it was weird.Not because of the incident in itself, but because it reflected a state, a frame of mind, a conjecture...Of course Marie had her reasons to do that ( I told you, I made myself the same decision), but I was just wodering WHY such a thing happened. I thought there are some facts that could explain the decision (see what Santi, Th_Th and other people told us)...Is not about judging!We can NOT do that, but we certainly may discuss the matter...Sombody said:”It’s not important what happened, now everything is ok between M and P”. I can not agree with this kind of “solving” problems, throwing back the things we don’t understand or we don’t want to understand...Of course we, as outsiders, can ignore them, but we can’t say the same thing about P and M (I’m not telling that they were SO affected by that incident, but it certainly meant something for them)...It shaped the relationship at least in some directions, it stated something about where they were stand and how they were as friends/non friends...
Maybe P’s absence at M’s wedding meant nothing.Maybe it came as a normal thing for them, maybe P didn’t even expect to be invited - ok, THIS is NOT our problem...THIS is private. If we don’t have words, assertions, phrases of P and M on a certain subject then we should treat that as being a privat matter or even a tabuu. But all I asked you was if there is SOMETHING TANGIBLE among your stuff that can explain this fact...Nobody tries to judge them!!! Why you people don’t understand that we CAN discuss something without resorting labels like: good/wrong/regretful/shameful and so on?
Respecting somebody’s decision is about REFUSING TO JUDGE and not about REFUSING TO UNDERSTAND. You must,at least, try to understand if there is any meaning in it and that will help you not to hasten with the conclusions!!...And still, this is not - how somebody said - about changing things (this kind of desires comes in the moment when you judge somebody), is not about agreement or desagreement and is not about having a time-machine to bring Per as best man at Marie’s wedding! I personally don’t see nothing bad in his absence at the ceremony, but I assure you that, from the outside, is kind of strage not to be present at his colleague’s most important life event...

To Wendy:
School project?? What school???What project?? I told you I’m here to relax a little..and I really like Roxette...SOrry if I bodered you, but don’t get suspicious, please!! Maybe I shouldn’t have told you that I’m a psychologist, but I just wanted to motivate my soft side to analysis...I got some experience in couples and I’m working with this since 1997 when I finished all the studies. Reading your discussions and some Roxette stuff I decided to be with you for a while...Nothing wrong, nothing hidden behind, trust me!! You have some curious and weird discussions and some of them I really enjoy...

To Sister Darkness:
...is possible, very possible... Maybe I’ll have some time to write what I think about it...

Sorry again for my English.

ixtlaner said on January 16, 2003 16:34:

Artists... you can’t expect them to act rationally, can you? ;)
“same words”: their mother tongue is not English, they might just not know enough words to describe their feelings... Or not use them just for fear of being missunderstood, or have the meaning of the words “twisted” by journalists... (we know they won’t miss a chance ;)
P&M have never been best friends. Brother & sister is kinda different...

P.S. I can’t see why you should be sorry for your English! (but then again, I’m not a native English speaker :)
P.P.S. But as a psychologist you should know that it is unprofessional to analyse people you don’t know!
;)

LittleSpooky said on January 17, 2003 02:42:

Yet: You expect someone to be rational in THIS lifetime??? You do have high expectations, don’t you? ;o)

pssst: Nah... is okay to tell us your profession. This is how we are here. We’re a family of sorts, and we beat each other to death on occasions. I know, I’ve been smacked around here :o)

Yet-not-a-fan said on January 17, 2003 08:25:

Here are some more things about Roxette:

I understand that Per and Marie have never been a couple. At least not officialy...But you shouldn’t take this assertion as being necessarly true. Of course they are not going to tell the newspapers that they had an affair...they constructed, I believe, the cleanest image, they have families, and, as far as I know, in the ’90s Per had a legitimate girlfriend/fiance. I am not trying to say that they are not loyal to their partners. I just want to stress that as Marie decided that Per shouldn’t come to her wedding, so, at least at a cetain point, their relation brother/sister seemed to be not that strong and they could be just two distant colleagues singing together pushed from the back by their success, duties, deals and other reasons (or even bearing a little split), one can imagine that they don’t feel like explaining the grey situations they have been through.
Again, I don’t really believe that their assertions refering to their relationship are always the same because they don’t know so many English words to make them more accurate. Usually, the most polished phrases/the pattern-assertions are the most untrue ones...But is normal to be like that - journalists can’t wait to record an inaccurate phrase so they can mix everything and make up a story you have nothing to do with it. I am just trying to say that you’ll never know how the REAL story goes. I mean you certainly can’t find it in their balanced interviews and you’d rather start to look for it in other directions (I am not very, very familiar with roxette stuff but I’m sure there is a material that will help you...).
I don’t say they are liers (God, no!!), I’m saying that there are some matters that just can’t be (and no one should expect to be otherwise, so stop asking Per/Marie whether they have ever been involved into a relationship!!) admitted oficially. Is pointless to expect to find more about Marie’s illness or, let’s say, their sex life....This is how the things should be and, fortunately, they are normal persons, with normal concerns and not trying to shock like Lopez or Madonna....They just protect their families and keeping some topics away from fans/reporters. I hope I made myself clear: I am not saying that they REALLY had an affair (though I think is highly possible, but maybe it is not...), but NOT to blindly believe that they have never been together only because they have always denied it.
You know, from my experience, I noticed that is so easy to make lovers out of friends...Things like these happen all the time, even if Per, for instance, really loves his wife [I think that P is the kind of man who need a support point, who needs a balance all the time for doing things ON HIS OWN, all by himself...though, he will probably fall down without Asa...Yet, I believe is not in a good mood these years...He has a critical age, his wife is not young and shiny anymore, his son is not small anymore, concerns like life, death and desease seem to take control, he must be careful with his body and so on...There are many, many thoughts that cross the mind of a 44 year man... I’m sure he is bloody tired and on the other hand wanting more than ever to do everything, being young again...Is not easy... I suppose that a successful album is highly desired...Living a life again, being on tour and...more other things I really don’t want to write down because is not good to be too specific...] [Marie, as far as I can imagine, really depends on her family, all her energy is there, but probably not that much then 5 or 6 years ago...Her present problems will totally change her, I’m sure. Hard to say in which way...I have some hypotheses, but there’s no time for them]. So, as I said, even if both of them really love their families, this is not a DEEP reason (if you are realistic and honest with yourselves) to avoid for almost 20 years some contacts with your collegue and friend (you give up at least once in a life time!)...
I feel I have to repeat this all the time:I am NOT trying to break the image of P and M, just thinking calmly and clearly a situation of life. We must admit (in fact, we all know it) a certain PRESSURE which can be very, very high on those who work so closely...They don’t have to really LIKE each other, is just enough not to DISLIKE each other...and if they admited about each other that they are good looking, if they admire mutually so much and have good opinions on each other, then we must take into account an inherent sexual pressure/tension that gives one at least “bad” dreams.
Assertions like “Per is not my type of man, though he looks really good” goes only till a certain point...then it falls down and becomes ashes...And about staying that long close to a woman who is far away of being ugly (on the contrary) can drives you crazy even if you don’t want it at all. I mean, this kind of sitation could be creative for a songwriter, it really keeps you alive and somehow interested in what you’re doing (maybe if roxette would have been formed by 2 men or 2 women it wouldn’t have lasted that long)...But if this pressure reach a certain level, then things can not be good anymore; one can’t work anymore, becomes frustrated and angry (paradoxically, with the person that he/her is tempted by!), even more, one hates the other’s girlfriend/boyfriend, realises that he/she’s jelous without even knowing why. And this kind of problems can NOT be ignored or throwed away in such a huge business, where everything must be perfect, because it can create real troubles and headaches. I mean if one needs a “positive” atmoshpere in a work like this (which involves many times living, travelling, eating, staying together), you should solve this problem somehow...And I’m sure they did...I don’t know how they have it solved, but they certainly did...
...Just think about avoiding this problem and people/fans/reporters always asking them: “Are you a couple?”, “What is Roxette? A familiy business?”, “Per, did you ever read a fanfiction?” etc., etc....I mean they certainly had enough time to IMAGINE the situation of being together, they could PICTURISE it, so, they surely have some moving pictures in their heads that may grow alive and “boder” if they don’t know how to handle them.
I read some stuff about Roxette, and, as I said, I was really surprised to see the same words that can’t cover a “real reality”...even brother/sister relationship is weird.It may exist, of course, a friendly realtion between different sexes, but these are so uncertain, so unhealthy and so dangerous for everyone!! Even without noticing it, the hints, the looks, the smiles, everything can grow into a montain of signals that you must sucessfully climb if you want to escape from that situation keeping you face (I’m not going to say a word about the mind!...) clean!
They also seem to “love” saying that Roxette would have not been so successful if they were a couple and sharing a bed while they are already together all day long would have been too much. I agree with it. But they didn’t convince me that they also really believe it...For Per, Roxette is/used to be a 24 hours business, is like breathing...so, is not impossible to imagine that he could have “stand” a Rox-lifestyle if he really would have wanted it...And Marie...well, Marie works very well with her husband (composing, producing, singing, even touring together) and doesn’t seem to have a problem with it... Some of us can do that, some of us can not...But she’s demontrated that she’s one of those who really can do it if she feels like...Of course, her solo-projects are not such a huge business as Roxette used to be, but I’m sure Marie is not less professional on her solo stuff then it was in Roxette...And if P and M would have been together then Roxette would have become “personal” too, even if it is a huge business. But ofcourse, that would have been a wrong thing (yet, not impossible for them)...Sharing bed and making professional music is not the best choice because, of course, you can’t be at your best working with very close people:you start to lose your interest in them, a neverending intimacy can’t bring any good. Yet, I repeat it, is not impossible.
But, on the whole, none of these two extremes (sharing everything on the one hand, and too much artificially imposed distance on the other hand) can be healthy. Behind a man and a woman working together stay, most of the times, mixed feeling, reach pictures and “bad” dreams...SO, what was Rox’s solution to avoid a “poisoned” working atmosphere? Anyway, I think it’s amazing that they resisted for so long as a group, that’s even impossible to do if they didn’t find the right solution. That’s why I believe they found it (maybe is not the same one all the time, because people change, have their ups and downs, but knowing each other very well, they succeed to adjust mutually, which is even great...).
I also believe that there was always a kind of “connection” involved in their long lasting friendship, maybe a stimulating tension...and I do think that they like each other and behind their openly admited mutual appreciation there are many threads (white, shades of grey and even black) to be considered...No one but they should know them.
Again, I wasn’t trying to suggest that they definitley were together, but trying to show that the things aren’t that simple as brother/sister, sharing bed/non professional work, good friends/ mutual appreciation which are only simple patterns without any deep meaning....We don’t know how they protect each other against bad feelings, hate feelings, erotic images, gelosy feelings, competition feelings and so on...You have no idea (or maybe you have) how difficult can be to maintain a status-quo in a work relationship between a man and a woman! I can see that they are mature, intellingent, stable and wise persons, but did you ever think that sometimes one must handle not only the bad sides of the other...but is even harder to handle the good sides?...And most of the time there are too many things to solve from both categories, which turnes to be a real mess if you are not intellingent enough...

Now you’ll ask: What’s your point? You’re boring! And I’ll answer: I have no point at all, I’ve just exposed an hypothesis.
I’m nobody, of course. See you.

DaminehGessle said on January 17, 2003 09:06:

Yet-not-a-fan:
Curiousity often brings wisdom. Those that aren’t curious don’t see things the way you do. I think the topic you brought in is amazing and as I said in the last page, anyone who didn’t like the topic and thought it’s non of anyone’s business or oh guys give them provacy better off not reading these. But again Yet-not-a-fan, nice point.

vivien said on January 17, 2003 15:51:

But Marie looks better than Åsa...doesn´t she?
But it´s matter of taste , of course.

Yet-not-a-fan said on January 18, 2003 08:56:

Hello! Nice to meet you all! I’m really happy to be here with you...

LittleSpooky said on January 19, 2003 09:34:

Yet: Do you have an email account? If so, would you like to email me? I have some ?s for you that aren’t pertaining to anyting on this discussion.

Spooks

Yet-not-a-fan said on January 20, 2003 12:15:

To IXTLANDER: I like you!!!
To Little Spooky: Yes, I have an e-mail account...Where is yours? I’ll e-mail you as soon as I can...I am really, really, really busy, so, please excuse me if I won’t be very fast. But I do promise you that sooner or later you’ll have my answer. I am also curious about what do you want to ask me...

To the others: That’s correct. You can’t even expect to have a rigurous HYPOTHESIS picking up your information from newspapers and internet. Still, you have the songs, the pictures, some facts that can’t be denied, some -at least apparently - “less” important words - and these all are related to different aspects of P and M lives, work and real/imaginary worlds. Anyway, things are somehow related to them. But of course, you can never be sure about a certain thing: sometimes people come to you and pretending that they are telling you their lives, they just make up stories, they lie and they enrich their feelings, they tell you dreams that they never ever had and so on...Still, you try to get the picture...Most of the times you just can’t do it for sure...But you still have them reacting in front of you, blushing, bursting into tears or even laughing when you did not expect them to do it ...So, many times the signs are more important than words...But not always, of course... People are so much the same and yet, so different!
Finnaly, I do beleive that the Rox stuff that you have is not enough for drawing a correct and detailed picture, but is more than nothing...And I don’t believe they usually lie...although I am sure they don’t let you find out the most sensible issues. At least not in a straight way...But there’s still many other gestures and insignificant words (as I already said) that can help you to draw - not an accurate picture, but at least a LESS incorrect one...So, you just can’t say that having all Rox stuff you don’t know anything about them...you certainly do!...But of course, an hypothesis must be proved...if not, it is something a little less than a lie...And I only exposed an hypothesis...and I don’t even know the whole Rox stuff...I’ve never said it can lead you for sure to the correct conclusions...But the most important thing that I wanted to stress from the very begining was the following: not to blindly believe that they have never been a couple only because they said that...Again, maybe they didn’t. But the little important of some pattern-words must be taken into account...And that’s all...

I think that you guys are just great. (But still not satisfied with those who write fan fictions...I think I desagree, but it doesn’t matter anyway...)
See you all.

ixtlaner said on January 20, 2003 14:09:

Yep, Marie looks better :) But that’s part of her job isn’t it ;P
(But I think Asa looks better *now* than, say, 10 years ago!)

@Yet-not-a-fan: thank you!
May I ask where you live?

dubacik said on January 20, 2003 16:13:

I think I read (for couple of years ago) somewhere that Marie wanted have only and only her family on her wedding.

ixtlaner said on January 22, 2003 13:11:

OK, OK, I understand, my apologies! I never intended to try to reveal your identity. I just got intersted in your country because of the way you wrote my nick... (just wanted to check something...) Besides, someone’s country is not such a personal thing, in my opinion. (Unless, of course, there’s someone here that may ’recognize’ you ;)

Also: it’s not being a fan that gets you involved here. It is the fact that you’re writing here. I’m not sure if you see this, but if you were on my place you would! ;) Sorry, but you’re already “in” in some way! ;)
[note: we’re many people here, just few know (anything about) each other...]

Santi said on January 30, 2003 20:28:

About Per’s relationship with his wife and the balance between private and working life, there’s something interesting in the book Gyllene Tider that I translate for you now:

As said by Åsa Gessle in page 63 of:
Wikström, Jan-Owe, (1997). “Gyllene Tider”, Ed. Bonnier-Alba.

“When we met in October 1984 it was totally outside the music world, I had hardly listened to Gyllene Tider.
My first music memory from Per was when he at any price wanted me to listen “Two tribes” by Franki Goes To Hollywood. He thought it was so incredibly good that he left home and went to get it.
And when he invited me home to have lunch for the first time he played Rod Stewart.
It was in 1989 for the first time, in relation with the needing of compiling Instant Hits, that I began properly to listen to Gyllene Tider. “Du är en ganster, älskling” (You’re a gansgter, honey) has always belongs to my favourites among the songs that Per has written. As well as “Tända en sticka till” (Light one more matchstick) from the first solo album, “It must have been love” with Roxette and “Kung av sand” (King of sand) with Gyllene Tider. I like the new Gyllene-songs more, those that were written in the nineties. Maybe because since then I have a connection with the band and the songs, and myself I’m a part of the story.
I listen to the demo tapes when I’m driving in the car, and when I some time say that I don’t like what I hear I always get to know that it’s me the one who’s wrong and that it is the best he has ever done. After that he can change his mind some days later.
I think that it’s a prerequisite in our relation that one, that is me, is not so much interested in music. Per feels better when he has a “teaching” roll when it comes to music”