tevensso (moderator) said on November 1, 2006 12:52:

Liberame Amor, not sure if that was the title, but as Stefan says, it’s not released.

Santi said on November 1, 2006 14:58:

A different language doesn’t have to ruin anything, it doesn’t happen with every song. I know great examples of great songs into Spanish, so don’t make that a rule, please.
By the way, not long ago we talked about this and I think someone said Libérame Amor was a cover by some latin american band of “It Must Have Been Love”. The name of “You don’t understand me”’s Spanish version is called “Tú no me comprendes”.

tavo said on November 1, 2006 15:37:

spanglish ballads are ok. i listened to un dia sin ti/spending my time and wicg/quisiera volar once. but i don´t have them. by the way, you can watch un dia/spending on youtube. they did that in spain back in 1999. i like it.

Rox_Nox2003 said on November 2, 2006 00:38:

“A different language doesn’t have to ruin anything, it doesn’t happen with every song. I know great examples of great songs into Spanish, so don’t make that a rule, please”

No one said that there was any rule implied instead a personal taste in terms of music and language understanding. If u were able to speak 6 different languages you’d understand my point of view.
ANYWAY, in terms of a simple pop song with a strong english speaking nature as it happens with Rox music tried to put into a different language does not fit to the basic essence. There are amazing song that were spanish like Hijo de la luna that was also reworked in french. Sounds beautiful but this is an example of a song that trancends language constrictions and musical boudaries in order to express a natural vibe through another language. That does not apply at 90% of all english made pop music as far as I have heard. You either create a pop in a certain language and that song will be known and appreciated in the country that language is spoken or u attempt to recreate a adapted lyric in another language with the risk of ruining the whole song if you feel that the magic of words in that language does not reflect the natural magic of the song when created having the original language in mind. All roxette songs were “englishlywise” created and therefore sound made for being understood in an english speaking pop culture like the one that surrounds you. It’s like the sounds, the melodies, the chords everything seems to have a magic that is parallel to the language in which the song was created. So this “spanish versions” sounds totally out of context with the music itself it does reflect this magic that the original versions have. Wanna have a good in a certain language? Compose it having that language in mind allowing words to fit with the whole compostion... recreate something into a new language as if it could keep that same connection ... it’s not something to be 100% reliable. In Roxette’s case for me ... a definitive no!

Jud (moderator) said on November 2, 2006 07:00:

rox_nox: you’d be surprised to know how many languages Santi speaks :D

Spanish language itself is not the problem, what ruins the songs is Escolar and his “translations” or whatever he wants to call it, using sentences that don’t make sense at all, nobody speaks Spanish like that, not even children ;)

Santi said on November 2, 2006 16:04:

Oh well, what was that about the 6 languages? I speak 7 and understand some more (related to the ones I speak), and I listen to music in even more languages than those.

And it’s funny since you say in your first sentence it’s a matter of “taste”. So you’re arguing against me showing off first your own limitations? :)

The only special thing of English to fit pop songs (that applies as well to French, by the way) is that it is so damn easy to rhyme in English because most words used by “pop-poets” are actually monosyllabs. That way you don’t get the complicated rhymes that you gotta find in some other languages, since nearly all words are “acute”, as they are in French as well. Anyone can rhyme in English, but in Spanish it takes a little bit more of imagination, and that’s why idiots like Escolar make songs that suck. You think it is only his songs for Roxette go find the others he wrote and you’ll see just how stupid it can get.

Now that I think you must be hating the whole of the Pearls Of Passion album of Roxette, because all of those songs were composed in Swedish and translated into English afterwards to fit the international dimension of the Roxette project as opposed to the 3rd solo album of Gessle that all those songs were composed for.
And how come you don’t complain about Italian songs in Spanish? No, because most of those make sense, rhyme, are cute and mean nearly the same as the original, and don’t come with “Italian is very similar to Spanish” because it is a different language with different words and a quite different grammar. And we were talking about languages, right?
You’re Portuguese, what do you think of the “lambada” song? Do you know it’s a translation of a Bolivian song in Spanish?

Na, I think you have to open up your mind and listen to more pop songs in more languages than English, that is why I’m giving you a gem of a link. It’s an online radio station called “Zemia Radio”, that broadcasts songs from many different countries in many different languages. The URL is http://radio.zemia.eu/ . Have fun listening to something more than English!! :D

Rox_Nox2003 said on November 3, 2006 12:11:

Apparently, Santi u felt I was somehow critizing you or attacking... once again, wrong, if you go straight to that perspective then you’re pushing the issue further into something totally out of this context.

It’s a matter of taste yes... for anyone who appreciated songs being adapted and that does not imply everyone. And what I meant is that not all the song adapted from an “english-speaking” way into another create a nice effect of even are able to capture a similar feel and vibe as the original. It’s not my case to actually feel that does adaptations sound natural to me cause they don’t... But yeah I know how for some spanish or french speaking people who often find it hard to speak and understand english appreciate this sort of musical work. But for me it doesn’t ring that well...

The fact that I can speak 6 languages and even understand a few others just like you gives me this perpective and I have also take some translation courses that focus on cultural and social translations and how they proceed into one languaage to another (what is natural in one, that does not exist in the other and things like that) and even in terms of music ... it’s stated by many that music shouldn’t be translated if the new translate lyric is supposed to be used to be sung. Which fortunantely it’s not what happens ... but instead a new lyric is done but maintaning a certain level of naturality in regards the language in which is being written (the collocations with words, sentence structure, etc) but still being able to flow natural and provide a feeling musicallywise.

You mentioned Lambada, a song in portuguese from Brazil which is not entirely the same as ours, and also a song that i hate cause i am not a latin music lover ... but which a very rich text that flows well in words creating some poetricity at least for me as a native speak I feel that. But if an english person would like to “translate” the song ...it would go “what the f...”? LOL ... The melody, the vibe, and the rhythm are so culturally latin that it couldn’t be so easily recreated with a new English lyric. I remember how awful i found Holly Vallance version of a turkish song ... in turkish made sence even if you don’t understand the lyrics one could feel a natural flow between the sound and the language culturallywise it made sence. But being adapted into English? Not for me... Another terrible example is when English artists are forced to duet with French singers in order to get their music there in France! Half in English and half in French ... most of it does not even make sence it was like having two different texts within the song ... and when you have a complete original version in English you can’t help but feeling that this is ackward.

So yes, some songs end up sounding good in adapted version into different languages and the result sounds good and most importantly natural to the listener but I don’t feel that is a case in most cases ... And i understand that for some people having song sung in their language sounds cool cause they’ll understand the lyrics (ridiculous is when you sing the lyrics but that isn’t even your own language and you either impress or make a fool of yourself) it’s also a marketing things having songs adapted into spanish for instance cause Spanish people find it easier fot them. But in a world where we shoudl all make an effort to improve in our own linguistical pluriligue competences (instead of just letting English rule everything) music could do the trick and allowing you to listen to music sung in differen languages should be a drama issue. You may not understand a language, but why keep not understanding it?

I don’t know if i was in anyway unclear in my ideas of if i said anything offensive cause these sort of theme deal with cultural views as well so I don’t wanna offend anyone. I jiust wanted to understand why in yout reply Santi you seemed to be sort of “critizing me and not in a very friendly way” as if I had said something totally wrong. That’s all. Peace

Plus: I like POP album and since I have never heard the originals swedish, the fact that the songs were presented to me in English even if that English is sometime simple and repetitive and witha an artificial feel of poetricity I never minded about it cause I am personally more connected to the melody than the lyric.

Then... following my previous thoughs on adpating music, of course when Laura Pausini or Nek re-do their music from Italian into Spanish it sounds a bit strange to me. Not the worst thing in the world but not the finest as well. Why couldn’t they just let the music be in Italian? Because Spanish people find it boringa and hard to bother listening a new language like the French do with English???

I listen to a variaty of music in different languages and threfore that justifies my perspective on this topic. Thans for introducing me to yout online radio station but I have my music at home as well, you know. From Swedish to Dutch, from croatian to russian ... I have it all ... so u still claim I should listen to more music in other languages after all this talk?

Rox_Nox2003 said on November 3, 2006 15:23:

Okey I see your point but notice one thing: I only spoke my mind based on material that I first got to hear on one languaged and later I re-found in another. It’s like in someway you get attached to the original and not the second version. But once again ... this isn’t a rule as it does not happen all the time. Like the POP cd ... never heard them in swedish and possibly I would find them a bit weird but of course being a Rox fan allows you the feeling of embrassing everything, at least that is what I am as far as Rox music is concerned. Yet I would still prefer the English ones ...

As for examples of Celine Dion song in french being re-recorded in English, or for instance the spanish/english version of Lucie Silvas’ “What You’ve Made Of” are examples of music that I can’t stand because the new version ruined everything ... the new lyrics don’t fit the original feeling the song has and in Lucie’s example the flamengo singin from the guy totally sucked big time for me.

And you’re right some Roxette ballads probably never got to be heard in English but spanish speakers so the Spanish version sounds more natural. But this is the perspective of the naive listener LOL And yes never liked Pausini, Ramazzotti or Nek in spanish though some things in Italian a really nice ...

One very good example of some able to sing in 4 languages but writes different music in each language is Lara Fabian. Her version of I Will LOve Again (Otro Amor Vendra) is for me a nice example of something more acceptable to hear but he outproved me being more than that when she recorded 3 songs written by herself in Spanish ... as she does the same in French Italian and English ... so adaptations is not a method she uses that much or that she uses with preference.

And we could go on .... but at the end of the day, I’d day ..adapt the songs you want as long as they keep the original feeling and the new languages can reflect some naturality within the music then I’ll be happy.

Debora said on November 3, 2006 22:00:

Yeah, the main problem about Roxette songs in Spanish is Escolar.

Rox_Nox2003 said on November 5, 2006 02:51:

QUOTE: “About the translations, well, the fact that italian and spanish share many similarities (I’m Spanish and I’ve studied italian) doesn’t spare her from some very awkward translations... on many occasions the nummber of syllabes just doesn’t match, and the translator tends to use a very dodgy grammar to “solve” it, with annoying results. Most of the times the translator uses an inappropiate verb tense to add or to cut syllabes... “

See this is the kind of situations of interlinguism and translation that trully bothers me when tried to be placed on music lyrics. It’s not the same as translatinh any ordinary piece of text ... very small details like grammar, syllabes, word collocations, even idiomatic phares etc everything is implied. You either recreate a complete new lyric in a new languages without necessary being too close to the original one ... so that you can also be more closer to the natural essence of the new language. If not.. it’s gonna sound ackward like in Escolari’s examples. As for Laura Pausini ... never been a fan but she’s a very nice singer ... new album coming out now too and as previous records released in both italian and spanish.

roxcyn said on November 21, 2006 04:40:

I only know of the Italian version called: “Tu non vuoi capirmi” by Paola Turci, I love that version a lot :D

Roxrider_USA said on November 23, 2006 15:32:

@Rox_Nox2003: How does brazilian songs, of course in Brazilian Portuguese sound to you? Although it’s the same language at its root, it’s not the same language geographically and even culturally. Also, the pronunciations undoubtedly are different and therefore sound different. I want to see how these differences influence the core meaning/message of songs in these both variations of Portuguese being discussed now. How does it strike you? Would you saythat if a song written and sung in both Brazilian and Standard Portuguese would inthe end have no difference at all concerning the message it’s supposed to deliver ? And, going even a step further, how does the differences in the languages make you feel concerning songs sung on both variations of our beloved language ?

By the way, I’m brazilian. Just to let you know so you understand why the questions.

Take care!
Carlos E., New York.

Kathrin said on November 27, 2006 13:21:

How would it have been if Roxette did an Album in German?