The Daily Roxette discussions forum has been closed. The forum is only available as a read-only archive.
Capital Punishment - terrorists
37 replies
nate said on August 12, 2006 19:09:
I used to be completely against the idea of capital punishment - no exceptions! - but now in light of everything that has happened since 9/11, I’m not so certain. What are your thoughts on this matter?
Should a convicted terrorist who is guilty of taking away the lives of many face the death penalty? or serve a life sentence with no hope of parole? Is society placed at risk if the convicted terrorist escapes and re-offends? The fact that the public may be at risk should the terrorist (or terrorists) escape, does this justify delivering a death sentence? Does capital punishment really act as an effective deterent against terrorism, or do you think it only fuels their cause? Can a terrorist serving a life sentence be effectively rehabilitated in a correctional institution? Your thoughts, ideas and opinions are welcome.
Ferdan said on August 12, 2006 19:27:
“These” terrorists are kinda ready to die for their cause, if you kill them they’ve kinda acomplished their task. Are you on their side?
Debora said on August 12, 2006 19:40:
The whole thing about terrorism is the point of view. For us, Ben Laden is a terrorist, but for them he’s fighting for their ideals. In the same way, we see the ones who fight for our ideals as heroes, but for them they are terrorists.
So my question is: What would we think if they (the ones we call terrorists) capture the ones who fight for our ideals and kill them as punishment?
In my opinion we (everybody around the world) need to learn how to live together accepting others’ ideas. But I won’t live to see it...
coyboyusa said on August 12, 2006 19:58:
debora so basically its a matter of view point. I personally don’t consider someoen who trains 8yr olds to strap explosives to themselves and run into a public place and detonate themselves as heros,I honestly hope you wouldn’t either regardliess of what they are ” fighting” for. My issue with the islamic terrorists are are they fighting the ” real enemy” they blame the wester and modern world fo rthier problems, but its thier rulers that horde oil money from their own people and their own oil execs etc. Yet you don’t see them bombing opec or kidnapping and beheading oil executives. Thats their big hippocracy..murdering innocent kids and women and missionaies in the name of fighting the west is cowardly...but its easy fo rthem to blame others when they don’t want ot look at their own people for the source of their problems eh?
Santi said on August 12, 2006 20:21:
I kinda agree with Debora...
So what is Ché Guevara for everyone of you? Terrorist or freedom fighter?
Roxrider_USA said on August 12, 2006 21:49:
The jury in the trail of Zacarias Moussaoui here in the US, chose the proper outcome for him.
The jury decided that Moussaoui must serve life in a maximun security prison under the solitary confinement regime in an undisclosed location in the US without the chance of parole and with no rehabilitation at all. In other words, he will die in prison without ever again seeing the sun light.
*Moussoui is one of the terrorists that knew about the plot and cooperated with the 9/11 highjackers in order for the highjackers to carry out their horrible act.
Take care!
Carlos E., New York.
nate said on August 12, 2006 22:05:
Some good points have been made. I agree that we don’t need anymore martyred heroes to enourage and recruit new terrorists. I fear that the death penalty in its attempt to deter terrorism could indirectly further its cause. Do you think perhaps captured terrorists could also be placed on a pedastal and elevated for “suffering for the cause”? I suppose it’s possible they’ll be touted as heroes regardless of whether they live or die.
......and what about the issue of public safety? Suppose a terrorist plot is foiled and 20 people are arrested, convicted, and all serving life sentences. They failed in their first attempt to kill how many hundreds or thousands of people. Should one or more somehow regain their freedom, I suspect he/she will be more determined then ever to succeed in the next attempt. Britain and Canada have already prevented several attempted terrorist attacks. How do you feel - knowing that the terrorists charged (in Canada and Britain) may not be permanently removed from society? Personally living in Toronto, I am not comforted with the possibility that any one of the 12 terrorists that were charged last June/06 could re-offend. Canada unfortunately is known for its lenient sentences.
On the flipside, I have great trouble with the idea of taking away the life of another, and I am not yet convinced that the risk of a terrorist to re-offend is enough to justify punishment by death.
ncurran said on August 12, 2006 22:05:
“I personally don’t consider someoen who trains 8yr olds to strap explosives to themselves and run into a public place and detonate themselves as heros,I honestly hope you wouldn’t either regardliess of what they are ” fighting” for.”
That view is still pretty much one sided though. Of course they are not heroes, but are the american/israeli/british soldiers heroes when they drop bombs on 8 year old kids? They are just part of a bigger machine, backed by a legitimate state so automatically these actions are justified by some. IMO both actions are not the actions of heroes.
whateveriam said on August 12, 2006 22:32:
In the UK capital punishment is used for high treason. Terrorism could come under that I reckon... but then stealing the post counts as treason too (not high trason though, cos its the ’Royal’ mail... hence people who get caught stealing the post get huge jail terms and fines, when all they expect is just the jail term for basic theft
edit typo-can’t spell too tired, off to bed.
rox-kuryliw said on August 13, 2006 03:31:
people should rot in a small room with 2 walls , death is far to easy way out. far to easy.
whateveriam said on August 13, 2006 09:26:
You can be made an example of when you are killed, but then again you could be a martyr to your chosen cause. Prison is useless-hardly a deterent any more, and human rights have to be upheld, despite their crimes
TinyBubbles said on August 13, 2006 11:29:
Ask yourself instead what the fuck makes ppl resort to actions like ” training 8yr olds to strap explosives to themselves and run into a public place and detonate themselves “
Conflict doesn’t just fall out of the sky. Why do we find it so hard to look at the bigger picture?
I agree that its a matter of different points of views. If a terrorist kills your family you’d condemn him for all eternity and probably seek revenge but if a terrorist martyred himself for what he and you believe is done for the greater good of both your survival.. then he’d be a hero.
But looking at the bigger picture, the terrorist is not a hero and neither is the victim who goes out to seek revenge. If the human race was more capable and willing to understand and have more compassion, the world would be a very different place. Ideally when someone does us harm we should grieve and then stop and start thinking about why what was done to us was done? What were the reasons and what role did we the victims play in it and what can we do to understand each other better.
TinyBubbles said on August 13, 2006 11:51:
@Nate
I don’t think capital punishment is the answer in dealing with terrorist and I’m sure you agree with that now :P
As for capital punishment in general.... pffff I can never come to a decision on it. Then I’m for it, then I’m against it. If you lived in a relatively small society and had very few criminals and you were then able to afford to keep them locked up as a matter of public safety..then I don’t see why such a society should play god with other ppl’s lives. Can we really decide who deserves to live and who doesn’t. In South Africa we sit with a really big problem in that our level of violent crime is debilitating our country socially and economically. So its no surprise that a lot of ppl here want capital punishment, not as a method of deterring crime, but really just as a method of “getting rid” of all the rapists and murderers. What to do what to do? Yes I’d like to see a South Africa without all these murderers, but I don’t want to have thousands of ppl’s blood on my hands. So we’d be a murder less society, but I worry about what would be the eventual outcome, as I really strongly believe in Karma. Ideally (and god yes I am such a naïve idealist:P) we should be stopping and asking ourselves WHY we have so many murderers. What happens to these ppl’s psyches in early development. What makes a person become a murderer/rapist and what can we do to try and stop that from happening in the first place.
You have capital punishment in America. Is America free of violent crime? It is not a solution. I’m afraid, in my opinion it is every society’s burden and responsibility to take care of his criminals cuz in the greater scheme of things it is that same society which cultivated the criminal in the first place.
whateveriam said on August 13, 2006 12:25:
In a way society has gone ’eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth’. People think the police and government and anyone else in positions of power aren’t doing enough, so they take the law into their own hands.
purplemedusa said on August 13, 2006 15:23:
’Terrorist’ is the new buzz-word of our time - I don’t believe there IS such a thing. I DO believe that there is a great deal of struggling in the world and untill someone listens’ these senseless acts will continue to happen... karma!
nate said on August 14, 2006 02:00:
You made some good points TB - and I’m not just saying that cause it’s your birthday. :)
I remember my time in SA well; admittedly there were times when I did not particularly feel safe. I suppose I was a little shook-up after having everything stolen upon the night of my arrival in Durban. It was only later I realized I could have been killed had I not stopped for a drink before heading to Pietermaritzburg. I suppose I was followed from the airport, and it was better that my things were stolen while I was having a drink, rather than being pulled over on a highway later that night and shot dead in addition to having my things stolen. That small event aside, I still loved my time in SA, and the nice young lady I met in EL. :) .....fond memories - and I would visit again if the right opportunity came around.
I suppose I can see why the idea of capital punishment may be popular with some people living in SA. I would have to agree based upon what I see and hear happen south of the border, that it does not appear to be a very effective deterrent against violent crime.
purplemedusa said on August 14, 2006 06:55:
Hey I NEVER said I’m for capital punishment - infact I’m seriously against it in ALL aspects and even in the case of so-called ’terrorists’!!
I’m sorry to hear about your awefull experience in South Africa - but tourists NEED to understand that this isn’t Europe and that certain rules apply when you want to remain safe! No, all those horror stories that’s spreading about South Africa aren’t exactly without fault (or ignorance) from the victim.
nate said on August 14, 2006 10:07:
Hello purplemedusa
I never meant to imply that you (or all South Africans) were FOR capital punishment. I apologize if the wording was unclear.
...and secondly, yes I agree clearly there was some fault on the travellers’ part. I happened to be travelling with 2 other people at the time - one who alone had enough “designer” luggage for all 3 of us. I am certain we must’ve stuck out like a sore thumb!
As I mentioned earlier, I still had a great time and ended staying for 4 months instead of only 3. Yes, I had to replace a few things - but not a big deal in the large scheme of things.
purplemedusa said on August 14, 2006 11:14:
Hey, not a problem!
Hehe, you don’t advertise that you have designer clothing on the airport. Atleast you were not harmed and I hope that you had travel insurance!!
Sad thing is that most crime syndicates in South Africa are run by “foreigners” from poorer African countries... for some reason South Africa are believed to be the land of milk & honey!
But don’t get me wrong, South Africa ain’t such a dangerous place as the international media makes it out to be! If you are aware of your surroundings and take proper pre-cautions, you don’t have to live in a constant panic.
rox-kuryliw said on August 14, 2006 12:01:
ye i have to admit i have read ALOT of horror stories about rapes, attacks, robbing people, ransoms etc in SA it would but me off not the best publicity there :-(. Im sure its nice liek anywhere else a mixed bag, just seemed to have got alot of media attention for the wrong things i guess.
Debora said on August 14, 2006 19:52:
@Santi
About Che Guevara, well, I don’t agree with that kind of actions. I think there are others ways of fighting for freedom.
coyboyusa said on August 17, 2006 00:49:
christ no offense every war has casualites peopel people who intentionally train orphans and kids from the time they are toddlers to be sucide bombers dont deserve any form of pity...the fact alot of you out there can’t even fathom that is appauling
purplemedusa said on August 17, 2006 09:37:
Coyboy... ofcourse that’s not hard to grasp HOWEVER is war REALLY needed anymore? We live in an age of information and communication - I cannot find one good reason why force should be used when differences could be settled with a little bit of patience and people ACTUALLY listening to eachother (and learning).
I’m a big fan of these types of discussions as they fascilitate different opinions and (hopefully sooner than later) people will realize that there’s MANY versions of the truth... and that our lives are very much dictated by our individual contexts.
Peace should NOT be bought in blood!
nate said on August 20, 2006 02:30:
I’m glad you’re enjoying this discussion PM.
I agree with what you’re saying in theory. I believe that mankind has the potential to settle and resolve it’s differences without bloodshed - but what about the willingness? there I remain skeptical.
coyboyusa said on August 20, 2006 13:27:
i’m noit saying war is ever justified but there are instances whne you simply cannot reason with people. The problems with dafur is a prime example, shoudl you just sit back let 2 million people starve to death while we ” talk” about it. I am no fan of conflict, but the israeli/ palestinian conflict is a prime example sometimes of how even when you get two people to a table, agree on something then walk away, there are sometimes that inevitability that one party isn’t satisfied enough and things get out of hand. I personally wouldn’t want to wait for lets say hezbollah to come and negotiat while they are lofting missles at hospitals etc, granteds their overheated invasion of lebanon was WRONG, even ick bush seemed to think they overstepped their bounds.
kachina008 said on August 24, 2006 11:25:
“no religion (don’t know about Hidnuism) would support the idea of killing innocent citizens”
Really? Why dont u find out then, instead of making moronic comments on public forums?
kachina008 said on August 24, 2006 11:42:
Oooo see Nate, you aren’t the only one being defensive LOL ;)
nate said on August 27, 2006 22:34:
@ kachina008
I guess it happens to us all sometimes.
I know you’re busy; however, I do hope to hear from you again soon.
davidc4 said on September 5, 2006 10:06:
give terrorists a labotomy...that way they can live like zombies just as they should
ally77 said on September 5, 2006 14:03:
I think I am for it, depends what they do....
I mean putting them in prison in the UK is just like going to Butlins for a very long holiday!
ally77 said on September 5, 2006 18:27:
Seriously it is, thinking of not paying the council tax so I can have a months holiday there....
and now, it’s recommended if you steal in the UK you won’t get punished....
Santi said on September 5, 2006 21:00:
@Mr. Lawyer who says studied medicine: Ever heard of books and encyclopedias?
Your education is your own duty...
If you have real troubles, here’s wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
Santi said on August 12, 2006 19:20:
Sure... just what we need. To put more heroes on the pedestial for the fanatics...