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Alleged, purported, supposed terrorist plot
27 replies
coyboyusa said on August 24, 2006 23:47:
and what bush is the oly politcal family to have ties to middle easter oil tycoons? hello half of europes politicians comisserate with muslim oil tycoons lol
Invisible_man said on August 12, 2006 02:38:
Hmm? So do you believe that 9-11 was a Bush ploy as well? What about 1993 WTC bombing....was that a Bush thing too?
Jud (moderator) said on August 12, 2006 10:11:
of course, and the whole thing going on in UK is fake! They actually had a casting to choose the muslim-born-in-uk who looked like terrorist the most to show them on tv.. *sigh*
rox-kuryliw said on August 12, 2006 11:56:
i was just waiting how long it was before someone whould put this up lol. just gonna put the one comment on this.
I dont care what the police/goverment do, they can do what it wants and takes and arrest who they want, just as long as they protect civilians in uk weather muslim jew christian or buddist. All this politicly correct shit is doing my head it. i dont care for it much. I think there doing a great job better than other country’s by farrr.
LittleSpooky said on August 12, 2006 14:30:
Rox-K: That’s the problem. People want protection and they don’t care what they have to give up in order to get it. Now, it’s been about 20 years since I’ve been to England, so I can’t comment about the way of life, etc.
But here in the US, I have a problem with my government saying there’s nothing wrong with listening into my conversations on the phone. Those are PRIVATE, no matter WHAT is being discussed. I have a problem with the government side stepping a Constitutional amendment (Amendment IV - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized) just to “protect” me. And I have a HUGE problem when a man who supposedly been elected, who is SUPPOSED TO UPHOLD the Constitution and the Bill of Rights turns around and tells people to “not bother him with it because it’s just a Goddamn piece of paper”.
You may not understand any of this, but to me, this is a problem.
And by the way... what if someone you know is arrested, but in your mind they’re just an “innocent civilian”? Tell that to people who have been arrested, and the burden of proof is now on them to prove they’re not a “teorrist”. And your buddy Blair there is just as guilty as Bush and the whole lot of them.
rox-kuryliw said on August 12, 2006 14:42:
so be it then, i want protection. I dont care what they have to do to protect the ’civilans’ they can listern to my phone calls all they want if that what it takes i have nothing to hide. i do believe inoccent till proven guilty and if they cant prove it, they can keep tracks on them suspected for the rest of there lives if that what it takes to save a few innocent kids i think and wont change my mind on that.
It would be to late if the planes crashed to do anything them, i just wonder would you have put something else if 9 planes where blow up over the atlantic ocean the other day ?
As for terroism my mother was down king street working when manchester city center was blown up by the IRA and will never forget that feeling.
Ferdan said on August 12, 2006 19:19:
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”
coyboyusa said on August 12, 2006 20:03:
the only people who truly worry about wire tapping or survelliance honestly are the people that are worried they are going to be caught doing illegal things. Lets be honest the government isn’t going to arrest you for saying god sucks or anyhting, or even that bush sucks, if thats the case i’d be in jail for life lol. The simple fact is in times of war we have ALWAYS sacrificed some of our freedoms in the pursit of safter. Like the sec of security in england said you are faced with this situation, move too soon and you run the risk of inciting the peopel who plotted a terrorist act and you lose key players in that plot, do nothing and in the fall out you are blamed, move too ate...lots of people die and you face the balem, so which way do you want it? Personallly, I agreed with rox, the political corretness has gfone too far, profiling works in every sense of the world, the poeple in the muslim community who life just and good lives have nothing to fear its the ones who want to put a pipe bomb in you kids school that should be scared crapless
Ferdan said on August 12, 2006 20:09:
so you think people in the government are above you?... they’re better? they have more rights?... that wouldnt surprise me knownig where you come from.
Anyway, do you know who said that “quote”?
rox-kuryliw said on August 13, 2006 03:22:
Essential Liberty please explain this comment ? who decides what is Essential Liberty ? and how is one to know what is temporary saftey with no correct right or wrong ways of dealing with situations and is anyone every completely safe anyway , as i think no. no one can ever truely be safe. Not even the lion in a jungle or a snail in the garden. plus who is right to pass judgement on who deserve Liberty and Safety as u need to seek to get it. miracles do not.
Room_service said on August 13, 2006 03:28:
In “times of war”? What war? Seems like the USA are always in war. Korea, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Kuwait, Irak... It’s strange, but all that war always happens outside their territory.
They should care more about their own problems (and they have a lot, in fact). I don’t understand why they get so involved in those conficts.
nate said on August 13, 2006 04:49:
LS, I can certainly see where you’re coming from. I wouldn’t be terribly crazy about the idea of having the authorities invade my privacy anytime day or night or whenever it’s deemed necessary. I suppose when some personal freedoms are lost, there is no guarantee they will be regained at a later time. Also, where does one draw the line? If the government can take away some of my rights and freedoms today, what’s to stop them from taking away more of my personal rights in the future?
At the same time, I can fully appreciate what Rox and Coyboy are saying concerning the safety of civillians. What almost happened in June 2006 in Toronto and southern Ontario still bothers me greatly. If what happened in NYC and London happened a little closer to home, I suspect that some of the responses to this topic might have been a little more empathetic.
rox-kuryliw said on August 13, 2006 05:22:
i think each individual on what they think can change alot through out there lives based on different circumstances and yes i would give differenet answers if some things had been different in my life thats for sure so i can also see where ls coming from.
on a lighter note good that at last something in the middle east is shaping up, (took em enough !)
kachina008 said on August 13, 2006 08:44:
You know what is the best way to control the masses? Instill FEAR. Take a look thru’out history, it’s how leaders control their people.
kachina008 said on August 13, 2006 08:54:
I wonder tho’ how much power you would give your government for protection. What if you got arrested on the basis of some random words you said during a phone call that were red-flagged? What if, because of these few absolutely unrelated words, the government puts you in a detention facility without the benefit of a lawyer, or any kind of trial, and what is more, subjects you to torture because you are the right color/religion/etc? you don’t see your family for months, and when you are finally released, you still don’t understand why you were arrested in the first place. Instead you have lost months of your life, you can’t sleep, and your life is essentially ruined. This to protect society?
All these measures have been in place, soldiers and civilians are dying everyday in Iraq, and everyday I hear, oh yes, there is a new plan, or a road map or whatever you might call it. The thing is, after 4 years of 9/11, what has changed? Do you feel safer? Has the violence lessened? Are the civilians being spared? The recent scare in the London airports is the proof that these terrorists are still active. So essentially, the action against terrorists is not working. On top of this, we as a society now live in a constant state of fear. We are afraid when we board an aircraft, we are afraid when we pick up the phone, we are just, always, afraid.
I understand the pain of families and people who are victims of terrorism. I am very very angry with terrorists/fanatics/extremists who are making our lives so difficult to lead at the moment. but I also think that what our governments are doing at the moment to tackle the problem is not the right way. Things are not getting any better.
TinyBubbles said on August 13, 2006 13:31:
We think that we are compassionate human beings, but really we are not. Becuz I believe the first step towards compassion is understanding and we do not try to understand each other. In our defence we’ve not really been given an easy task since we all have so many different cultures/religions and hey married couples cant even always understand each other. But understanding and compassion is the key. And that is something we find impossible.
I’m sorry about singling out America, but I do now since they are the biggest culprits. Everything they’ve done the last few years have taken the world from a bad situation to a catastrophic situation. Violence is not the key. Compassion and understanding is. Terror should not be fought with terror. Things are not getting better, they are getting worse and the more you try to get rid of the terrorists, the more terrorists you cultivate. America’s counter terrorism is not the right way. We are indeed more afraid and in more danger than ever before. Counter terrorism is not making the world a safer place. It is creating even more pain and more resentment and more hatred.
So how do you have compassion for a terrorist when they see it fit to blow themselves and thousands of innocents up? Hard yeh?
Lemme ask something else. How do you find compassion for a country who sees it fit to storm into other countries and kill innocents in the name of “the fight against terror”??
I shouldn’t preach myself. Had I lost someone to 9/11 or any other terror attack I’d prolly strike back without thinking twice and if I suffered myself under isreali occupation I’d probably become a martyr myself who knows?!
As for the original post by Oldag.. I honestly don’t know how to reply to that so I wont. And I apologize.
LittleSpooky said on August 13, 2006 22:54:
Kachina: Thank you. That’s exactly what I am trying to say. Anyone who thinks that this will end sometime soon is just kidding themselves. According to the US / British governments, there is always “someone ready to take the place of the ’fallen’ martyrs”. Or “multiple someones”. If this was REALLY true, it tells ME something:
These people are fighting against perceived invaders. Real or not, these people didn’t ASK for the interference of the US / UK. It was FORCED on them.
Saddam Hussien has genocide (among numerous others) charges against him. Go back and look, the US help put him in power.
Osama binLaden? Simple. United States CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) product. WE GAVE him the stuff to fight the Russians with. Training and everything.
Manuel Noriega? Another US backed “dictator”.
The US is batting a thousand with the people they put into power. Genocide / mass murder, etc is usually the result. Is it a wonder that the US is so hated? And the UK is just by “guilt by association” because Bush and Blair are so “buddy buddy”.
Room_service said on August 14, 2006 02:17:
Genocide also happened in the USA. Remember how the black people was treated in the past. And yes, USA governement was always “feeding” the dictatorships. They were also in good terms with the military dictators here in Argentina, in the late 70’s. But when, for some reason, those dictators get out of hand, they make up a reason to beat them. Call it nuclear weapons or whatever.
coyboyusa said on August 17, 2006 00:57:
spooky darling, every governemnt on this earth has made pacts wiht peopel they thought at one point or another would ensure the saftey of their own people and its come back to bite them hard. the whole problem with where terrorism is headed is that any moron who thinks they have a good point that isn’t being listened to thinks its a justified thing to bloew up a building or crash a plane, and a good 98% is coming from the muslim world. They are hippocrites of the highest order, they attack civilians for the things thier own leaders and foreign politicians are doing to them. In terms of our own domestic policies, like i said the only people who have anything to worry about are the peopel who plan to comitt bad deeds. You complain now about wiretapping etc, yet one day if it saves your kid from some a**** that wants to hold up a school or something I don’t think you’re gonna be all that upset
black people weren’t mass murdered thnak you...ion fact adfricans sold enemy tribesmen to european slave traders. Yeah every country has its pasts but the fact its still happeneing today is shameful
and not for nothing but would you honestly be comnfotable with hezbolla or alqueda or the president of iran having control of a nuclear weapon....??
noriega was a joke period why anyone even encorgaed him is beyond anyones fathoming.
we backed saddam hussein because iran was the greater evil in the middle east....noone defends what saddam did but picking him off over osama was wrong...i dont’ think anyone even me thinks bush handled it right.
saddam was used not only by the usa..it was the saudis who encouraged us, in an effort to protect their own interest go after osama....but he comisserates with saudio oil tycoons who fund about 90% of the funie morons over there so we won’t touh him or them any time soon.
we can go tit for tat over this all we want spooky, the oerall dislike in the world right now is for bush not america....we’ve done far too much good in this world for people to forget that
LittleSpooky said on August 17, 2006 05:06:
I don’t have time to post has I have to be up in 4 hours for work, but I’ve got a speshul post just for you Coy.
Kathrin said on August 20, 2006 13:51:
Has anybody seen Michael Moore’s ,,Fahrenheit 9/11”
It’s documentary about the Bush Family and the Bin Ladens and it also shows things what George.W.Bush has done wrong,it also shows things most Americans have not seen yet(Like The Bush’s have a Relationship with the Bin Ladens)
TinyBubbles said on August 20, 2006 14:51:
I thought that relationship with osama’s family was well documented. Maybe not in america..
Sometimes ppl just believe what they wanna believe and disregard the rest.
Oldag75 said on August 12, 2006 01:16:
Right-wing propaganda now says there were some folks in the UK planning to detonate hairspray/cell-phone bombs on airplaines flying to the US. It’s obvious to anyone following US politics and the Middle East war that this was a giant ploy planted by the W Administration to rally support for the illegal war in Iraq, and deflect attention from stem cells and other right-wing condemnations. Following the defeat of Joe Lieberman in the Connecticut primaries, Bush phoned Tony Blair and ordered his lap-dog to stir up this mess, and Tony obeyed.
On a positive note, I actually heard an old good song by Badfinger on the radio today. They need to get back together, and do a reunion album.