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128 replies
LittleSpooky said on March 2, 2006 11:48:
lol
alexandre100 said on February 4, 2006 02:39:
Well, that site doesn’t explain in what context was used those Mohammed cartoons...
My opinion is that Denmark must apologize for this; I’m 100% with Islamic countries.
It’s just a question of pride and honor, a thing that still remains in the islamic countries, at least...
Oldag75 said on February 4, 2006 03:39:
As Bruce Willis’s character said in the film Die Hard, “Welcome to the party, pal!”
roxtexanet said on February 4, 2006 05:39:
Why should Denmark apologize for the actions of a few of its citizens? Did Saudi Arabia apologize for the actions of bin Laden? Why should they?
LittleSpooky said on February 4, 2006 06:03:
Actually, that should be the United States apologizing to the rest of the world for bin Laden’s actions. As well as Saddam Hussein and Manuel Noreiga. And probably countless others.
However, in my opinion, I haven’t seen the cartoons, so I’m not sure what the flap is about. That’s unless the cartoons are posted on the site that this topic is about.
Jud (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 07:33:
you think they would appologize if one of their newspapers would publish such a cartoon of let’s say, the terrorists attacks?
NO WAIT! Those fanatics are the same that CELEBRATED the bombings in NY, London and Madrid. Did anybody appologize for that? These people are sick!
I wonder what they want to achieve with boycotting Danish products :D :D
Oh, and since now Europe is so evil, I suppose Turkey won’t take French/German money anymore, or?
kachina008 said on February 4, 2006 08:55:
Judith: so the cartoons are what...revenge...? by the way, some of the pictures (with ppl celebrating) that were shown in the media after the towers came down were stolen from an earlier period.
Why would anyone want to make fun of someone else’s religion? why would you want to create trouble in the name of “free speech”? no one has a sense of humor when it comes to religion. The reason why the cartoons are not such a big deal to some ppl is because they are not religiuos. doesn’t give anyone the right to insult someone else’s beliefs, just as it doesn’t give any religiuos person the right to glorify their beliefs to another person.
Kattunge said on February 4, 2006 10:50:
Newspapers in muslim countries insults jews all the time.
When will they stop it?
When will they apologise?
And yes, why should Danmark apologize for what some citizens did?
rox-kuryliw said on February 4, 2006 10:57:
Denmark should apologize, its not right to offend people. Freedom of speech is ok but not to harm or offend anyone. I do think that the muslim people have reacted like animals , saying kill everyone who insults islam , i think its rather barbaric.
tevensso (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 11:34:
Yes that’s exactly what the muslims have said. They are in some strange way acting like mad savages, like a reporter so eloquently put it. And they hate Denmark (and the rest of Scandinavia, because they are allowed to be racist) but they don’t really hate the billions that Scandinavia gives them... I only ask for little, stop giving them anything. Let them destroy themselves, then maybe we can build something nice down there.
@alexandre: So killing all of Denmark is a “pride and honor” thing? That’s pretty sick thinking, wouldn’t you agree? These “terrible” cartoons were published Sept 30, why did it take 6 months for the muslims to react?
Let’s call it even now, when the muslims have burned some Danish flags.
alexandre100 said on February 4, 2006 12:19:
I won’t make your words mine... Yes, I said it’s a “pride and honor” thing, and since it came from me, it’s not a “pretty sick thinking”, as you said... I wasn’t talking about killing people, I was talking about the protests; they have the right to do them (since they do not kill anyone). To Islamic countries, religion is a “pride and honor” subject. Muslims had the same feeling that Denmarks did when they saw their country flag being pounded (definetely, a “pride and honour” subject, too)...
No one got the right to play with other people’s religion... Even under the “freedom of speech or expression” argument (or pretext)...
kachina008 said on February 4, 2006 12:38:
Tev: you have pretty much hit the nail on the head with your first statement...this is pretty much the problem many european countries are facing at the moment. To bite the hand that feeds you should never be tolerated.
*but*
I still think we can rise above the petty things that some muslim people have done, just like we expect the muslims to rise above the petty things (like these cartoons) that some Danish people have done. It’s again this “us vs them” mentality, which is dangerous and will divide us even more. what percentage of people have acutally burnt flags? How many muslims are just lying low? Why should all muslims be put in the same box, as people who are radical and fanatic and critisize the country that takes care of them?
Freedom of speech is all well and good, but when you start invading someone else’s freedom, then you are in the wrong.
I don’t agree with what the muslim goverments are saying, the demands for apologies and the burning of flags. But I also don’t understand why some danish cartoonist decided to fan the flames of hatred, like there isn’t enough reason for us to kill each other already. Come on! How can you even take sides in this problem which resembles a spate between children in a playground?
So no, I’m not taking the side of the Danish, neither am I on the side of the protestors. I am going to sit on the fence and wait until this idiocity blows over, like most of the danish/muslim/world.
TinyBubbles said on February 4, 2006 13:13:
You can understand the anger. Imagine cartoons depicting Jesus Christ in a bad light. Don’t think that would go down well either. However I don’t see why Denmark should apologise. The editor of the newspaper had been fired right? The newspaper should apologise if an apology is required. As far as I know many apologies have been offered so far but they are not being accepted.
I can understand the outrage but if I were Muslim I’d be even more angry about how these Muslim protesters have been acting.
I just love the Muslim protest posters…
“we will kill you”
“burn in hell”
“kill those who insult Islam”
“massacre those who insult Islam”
Yeah that’s one way to convince your western critics that Islam is a faith of peace and forgiveness..
I don’t know who said it here.. but it is well known that in certain Islamic countries Jews and their faith are insulted and ridiculed.
In a prefect world we’d all accept and respect others’ way of life and their faiths. But ah well..
I personally think it was a very bad judgment call on the newspapers’ part. I think it is bad taste. And I hear the whole freedom of speech argument. Only I wonder what exactly is freedom of speech ? Newspapers should print the facts of what is going on in the world. Not air their personal feelings and political views. They need to be neutral while only allowing their readers to air their opinions on matters. Should newspapers be allowed to print anything they like? Even propaganda?
TinyBubbles said on February 4, 2006 13:15:
Bin Laden with a turban shaped bomb would’ve been funny. The other cartoon is just insulting. Even if you aren’t muslim.
Kattunge said on February 4, 2006 13:22:
Yes, the cartoons were insulting.
But you can´t blame all scandinavian people for it.
And those idiots have no right to kill innocent people only because they are danish.
Jud (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 14:21:
sure we wouldn’t make such much fuzz about some caricatures of Jesus, I am sure that in all thousands of newspapers published daily, there must have been such caricatures of catholic/Jesus/God, and? did christian start to threaten the newspaper? ask for “revenge and execution” of the artist? Why is it good or nobody cares about cartoons of politicians or a group of people/minorities or anything else happening in the world and it isn’t about Mohamed? Why should they be treated special? Because they hold the truth?
If I would be Denmark I would stop all cash-flow towards those countries, then they can shout and shoot to the sky or whatever they feel like.
TinyBubbles said on February 4, 2006 14:32:
I dont agree with you Judith. Of course such drawings of Jesus would cause outrage in strong christian communities specially in counties like mmm say Poland. You must understand that Muslims take their faith a great deal more seriously than the majority of christians. Hence the scale and intensity of their outrage. Who are we to say they are wrong for getting so upset. Who are we to punish them for feeling so strong about what they believe in?
Yes i am totally against these protestors’ actions. Calling for violence and burning flags. It is uncalled for. But i dont think they represent all of the muslim population. We need to keep this in mind. They dont represent all of Islam and we must try and understand why muslims are upset about this.
I dont think Denmark should stop cash-flow. It would be against their good nature :)
coyboyusa said on February 4, 2006 14:33:
as long as muslim extremists continue to blow up children and murder women I will draw mohamed with a dress on kising me for as long as it take to get them to just shut up.
alexandre100 said on February 4, 2006 14:42:
I totally agree with @TinyBubbles...
I totally disagree with @coyboyusa...
Jud (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 15:05:
TinyBubbles: it only takes let’s say 5 of them with bombs to kill about 200 - if not more - of inocent victims.
@coy: lol! :P
tevensso (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 15:09:
They are totally entitled to be upset, if that’s what they want, but I wouldn’t call this upset, I would call it a religious frenzy borderlining madness. And again, I don’t know of any Christians that would make these kinds of threats had it been Jesus or whoever on those drawings.
And yes, the suicide bombers really get the world on their side, don’t they?
Edit: typo.
tcooh said on February 4, 2006 15:44:
This threat is not just against Danes, they burnt both Norwegian and Danish flags, dute to a Norwegian christian newspaper printed those cartoons a while back. Such threats are uncalled for, and they should be taken seriously cause communities outbreaks have done such actions before. Scary! I stand behind the freedom of the press in our community.
Burke said on February 4, 2006 16:04:
I think it’s really high time the west stands up for his ideals. These ideals are really very much worth while to be protected. I can’t find words when I see what has happened in London, when I hear that Danes are in danger in the islamic world - because of cartoons.
And yes, two things I find particularly irritating. Firstly, apparently, there is zero reaction by officials in Palestina, Yemen, Iran or Syria that regret the violent acts that have occurred after this conflict has gone out hand (though it seems to me that it has been well orchestrated). Secondly, religious leaders claim the cartoons are offensive. I do believe that, and I am sorry for that though I see absolutely no way how a state or government that has no connection whatsoever with the free press can apologise for these cartoons. However, it seems that more radical and fanatic protesters don’t have a problem with burning the flag of Denmark which bears the Christians cross as its main symbol.
To make a long story short: I fully support Denmark in its struggle to defend our freedom!
roxtexanet said on February 4, 2006 16:56:
The cartoons were offensive and in poor taste. LOTS of things are offensive and in poor taste - that doesn’t give me the right to call for mass genocide and beheadings of ENTIRE NATIONS of people. The cartoons are insensitive and offensive but the response has been way out of proportion to the offense that was committed... not that it’s surprising to see right-wing religious extremists over-react, of course (Tinky Winky, anyone?).
It sickens me to see the protesters in London waving around signs like “Free speech go to hell” - how can they not see the hypocrisy in that?! They denounce the very thing that gives them the right to protest it!
tcooh said on February 4, 2006 17:00:
Right now both the Danish embassy and Norwegian embassy in Syria is on fire!!!
Jud (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 18:25:
but you have to understand and tolerate it, you make a cartoon about their profet, they burn you down, to start with. And yes, it’s only a few of them, as you can see on the pictures >:|
roxlad said on February 4, 2006 19:15:
It’s a not about the Muslims in genaral, it’s about those fanatics and the way they overreact. There’s no need to set fire on embassies or destroy flags. I can understand that they don’t want to joke on their religion and they especially don’t want other people to do it but one thing is to say they were upset and one thing is to become criminals for that. They would have been right if they were moderated but now they are wrong 100% and no simpathy is to be expected. I wish god/maometto himself told them how stupid they are.
Mari said on February 4, 2006 20:19:
TinyBubbles, you are totally wrong. You remember movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail? It was a movie about Jesus, holy grail, god etc. Lot’s of parody and joking about Jesus! How many flag of Great Britain get burned? Yep, 0.
So sad that those loser-muslims dosen’t have any sense of humour.
Mari said on February 4, 2006 20:24:
alexandre100, you have to change your nick. It’s against my religion! Omg! It’s the pride and honour thing, you know. So, if you don’t change you nick, you country have to apologise for me.
alexandre100 said on February 4, 2006 21:26:
@Mari, could you explain your post, please? Because, if you were trying to be ironic or sarcastic, I didn’t get it...
zeeshan said on February 4, 2006 23:03:
I think someone is making all this happen to “make” this happen. I think it’s a deliberate move to piss off muslims and to create more extremists in the poor muslim countries and I believe that any one here who even remotely thinks that what they did by showing those cartoons was right then you are only helping a third world war to happen sooner than it’s suppose to be. I also believe that the moderator shouldn’t have brought the topic with such a subject. Lets prepare for more attacks. Actions like these will NEVER help settle peace in this so-called Global Village. It will only push the moderate muslims to extremism OR to support them and give ANOTHER reason for the extremists to react HARD.
tevensso (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 23:15:
What the muslims should’ve done, in my opinion, is to have said “that was dumb of you, please don’t do that again” and then nothing. But THIS? If you can blame a third world war on some stupid cartoons... I am at a loss of words.
roxtexanet said on February 4, 2006 23:27:
@zee: I don’t think anyone here believes that making and publishing these cartoons was a good idea (well, not the majority of us anyway) and those offended certainly have a right to be upset. But the response crosses a line, too: burning embassies? A little much, don’t you think?
I agree with what Kachina said above: no matter how the media portrays it, the number of wackos calling for beheadings and hands to be severed is small in proportion to the number of people offended by this incident and the total number of Muslims in the world. I’m sure that, angry as they are, most Muslims would stop short at advocating mass genocide and beheadings as an appropriate response (all of the ones I know, anyway).
roxtexanet said on February 4, 2006 23:31:
@tevensson: ...and demanded an apology from the guilty party (i.e., the newspaper), which they got. Time to move on - surely these people have jobs to go to?
rox-kuryliw said on February 4, 2006 23:32:
I think all this has been BLOWN WELL out of proportion, its stupid.
Oldag75 said on February 5, 2006 01:10:
If someone “insulting” your religion upsets you, then you must not be very secure in your beliefs. I don’t give a rat’s derriere about what anybody else says or draws or whatever, about my religion – it doesn’t affect ME any. When religion walks in the door, reason flies out the window.
DaminehGessle said on February 5, 2006 01:36:
Denmark did apologize for this.
It’s a matter of respect of other people’s beliefs whether you like muslims or not, or the actions of a few of muslim extremists. It’s disrespectful or anti-religion to put a face to Mohammad.
roxtexanet said on February 5, 2006 02:04:
Denmark did not apologize for this, nor should they. It sets a bad precedent: One of our citizens does something to offend a group of people and our entire country has to apologize for it? Apologizing is taking responsibility - the government and the People of Denmark didn’t do this, a very small number of people in Denmark did this. The offenders should (and have) apologized, and that’s enough. If Denmark apologizes for this then the government of Iran must certainly apologize to Canada for the treatment of Zahra Kazemi (Iranian-Canadian journalist arrested and brutally raped, tortured, and murdered by agents of the Iranian government, Iranian government refused to return her body to Canada for autopsy, then acquitted her murderers - agents of the State - claiming the death was “accidental” ) but it will be a cold day in hell before that happens, won’t it?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kazemi/
WorldFalls said on February 5, 2006 07:47:
It’s not about whether or not the pictures are “right” or “wrong.” That is simple. The pictures are in poor taste and I doubt that anybody disagrees with this statement. They are offensive.
The problems that arise are:
1) Freedom of speech. Citizens in free countries have the right to say, draw, or print anything. As a lesbian and Pagan I can tell you that I have seen cartoons and commentary attacking who I am that are so offensive that they have put me in to tears. I know first hand that it hurts. Nonetheless, I would rather have my feelings hurt by insensitive comments than live in a Muslim country where people can be stoned to death for speaking their own opinions. There is a price to pay for freedom of speech, and I, as a citizen in a free country, am happy to pay that price! I grow thicker skin with each insult and become a stronger and better person for learning to react with dignity and not violence.
2) The big issue to me is the incredibly violent reactions of these fanatics around the world. Yes, the pictures are offensive. But absolutely NOTHING gives them the right to burn embassies and attack innocent people. If Denmark and the rest of the free world give in to the bullies, then what happens next? We can’t meet their demands now. If we give in now then they will know they can bully us into kissing their asses and I for one don’t want to see our free countries turn into nations with a strong Muslim influence. No, I’m not prejudice against Islam. But I don’t want to LIVE Islam. And taking away our right to free speech, even when that right is occasionally abused, would be a first step.
3) A newspaper in Denmark printed these pictures. NOT the Danish government. NOT the queen of Denmark. NOT the Danish people. A few people at a newspaper made the decision. Why are all Danes being punished for what a few did?
I love Denmark. I love the Danes. Denmark has held a special place in my heart all my life so perhaps I’m a little biased here, but I will defend this great country with every breath I have left. They have done nothing wrong. A few citizens acted like buttheads, and if I ever run in to those few people, I will gladly tell them they were rude and insensitive to publish those images. But I know that the majority of Danes do NOT think those pictures were nice. And I refused to sit back and let a group of fanatics abuse, oppress, and punish the citizens of this wonderful country. I would encourage everybody to support Denmark and to purchased Danish products; in the name of their freedom and YOURS. You don’t have to agree with what that newspaper did to support Denmark. All you have to agree with is the concept of freedom.
kachina008 said on February 5, 2006 08:34:
I do wonder about the religious leaders who are goading the Muslim ppl to do this, you know? Just like the religious leaders in the States who told their congregations to vote for Bush because he is a man of God.
Who other than the least educated and weak-minded will follow such obvious goading? unfortunately, religion has used people like this for their agenda for centuries, and it ain’t gonna stop now.
So the Muslims show their anger by physical reaction, burning seems to be a favourite. Other religious people react in different, less obviuos ways, but believe me, the sentiment is still the same.
roxtexanet said on February 5, 2006 09:22:
@WorldFalls: VERY well said and God I love the Indigo Girls!!!
@Kachina: You’ve captured my feelings exactly - how could people allow themselves to be manipulated this way? Does religion exclude the possibility of critical thinking??
mbroxer said on February 5, 2006 09:54:
I don’t understand what are those “cash-flows to muslims from Scandinavia” that are mentioned all the time. So far I naively presumed that Saudi Arabia is an incredibly rich country because of its oil, not because it is charitably sponsored by Scandinavia. And while currently we have a world crisis with oil, not with Danish yogurt, probably muslims have some power after all. And that is why their demands are being taken seriously. I mean, freedom of speech is a great thing, but try to come to a pub, sit next to a huge gorilla and say to him “I think you are ugly and stupid, and your woman has hairy legs”... Even if it was only a joke... the right to speak is yours, but the consequences for what you say are yours as well. As you will realize in a hospital a few days later. Any freedom should be used wisely, the more freedom you have, the more responsibilities you have for its use. The ability to handle freedom differs civilized societies from barbarian tribes. I don’t believe that there is such an art that can only exist in a form of provokative religious insults, so I don’t see any reason in drawing or publishing such stuff, other than to actually insult and provoke certain religious groups. If you need so badly to insult a religion, insult your own ;) And people who think muslims are a lower class of humans who should be grateful to Europe for toilet tissue, are quite barbarians themselves in their racist views.
kachina008 said on February 5, 2006 10:01:
roxtenat: yes religion precludes critical thinking, this is why most religiuos principles are based on pure faith alone. and besides, most people who are fanatically religiuos rely on their leaders to tell them right from wrong. They don’t think for themselves, they are too conditioned to leave it up to God, and to their priests/pastors. However, there are many intellectuals who are also religiuos, and I really think these people battle with intellectual reasoning and faith-based beliefs everyday. I’ll bet you wouldn’t find these ppl burning shit and creating havoc though.
per_mson said on February 5, 2006 10:30:
If we were as stupid as some of those people in Damaskus we in Sweden should go out and burn their flag and their ambassy now since they burned down ours. We did after all have nothing to do with those pictures in Sweden and we even said we thought it was wrong to publish them.
I think that this reaction from them is just a big chance for them to pick on the west world. It almost seem as if they want war?!?! Without those extreme muslims I think the world would be almost a peaceful place to live in.
I think this whole thing is to make a chicken farm out of a feather as we express it in Sweden. :-(
rox-kuryliw said on February 5, 2006 10:53:
from what i see. i think this has all blown out of the water, but who really has the problem with the western world, as someone put it . IS the rest of the world picking a fight ? any excuse it seems to burn a western flag ? they will pick on the western world for anything, they just want one excuse to hate us ?! jealous ? ? scared ? ? fearful of female power ?? just some questions people need to think about ?
of course everyone is going to have there own ideas on the subject. But ill leave with this ! if i went out in the street and burnt a huge flag from a non western world , cos they like burning ours so dame much? . What reaction would if get ? everyday Westerns dont do that as a whole (well i havent seen one? ) i just think its an excuse. and a VERY poor one for hate.
purplemedusa said on February 5, 2006 10:55:
GOd this debate is getting soo old now - It’s just that the damn dust doesnt want to settle!
Let the damn inbreeding continue - and one day when everyone’s to retarted to fight back, someone will discover ancient concepts called *peace* , *tollerance* and *love*
rox-kuryliw said on February 5, 2006 11:03:
all this over a few drawings, seems to strange LOL, and they is another thing , to be honest denmark and other countries that published the cartoon ( all this for that OW MY lol ) are not muslim countrys so i can see it non offensive and non of the muslims worlds business in the long run what non muslims countrys do. We dont go round doing major protests and burning embassys for stoning people, locking women up ect ect in there muslim countrys ? but i know non western worlds have to be respectful aswell its just manners (before anyone stones me on here lol) its strange why so many muslims people want to live in the western world and not vice versa as well which i find funny, but i find the whole sunject very strange!
Jud (moderator) said on February 5, 2006 11:12:
@ worldfalls: I agree!
so let’s see if I get it right, since they are sooo poor and brainwashed .. the next time a bus or a subway or whatever in a “western” country blows up in the air, we will have to blame ourselves because, bad evil us, we have offended those people in a way or another and they have the right to defend their honour/religion/whatever.
tevensso (moderator) said on February 5, 2006 12:32:
@mbroxer: The Scandinavian money doesn’t go to Saudi, it goes to the very corrupt Palestine regime, that’s what we/they mean.
alexandre100 said on February 5, 2006 12:51:
@mbroxer and @purplemedusa: well said!!! i couldn’t agree more!!!
tevensso (moderator) said on February 5, 2006 13:40:
You agree with Purple? Maybe you should read his post again?
coyboyusa said on February 5, 2006 15:53:
there is an upside to a thrid world war if you think about it, we;d wipe out all of the moronic homicidal retards that can’t live in peace :)
Strest said on February 5, 2006 16:42:
coyboyusa: Well, that’s true. But it wouldn’t just be the middle east, africa, russia, eastern/south eastern asia, usa and parts of south america that would be wiped out.
The rest of the world be gone as well.
ally77 said on February 5, 2006 19:34:
Hey, I am glad they boycotted Danish products....
SEND THE DANISH COOKIES TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! **sod the diet**
I support Denmark.... it was a cartoon, a joke and these extremists have taken this way of of context but of course there Allah god supports them burning down Danish embassies and flag... that of course cannot be wrong!
LittleSpooky said on February 5, 2006 20:10:
So I’ve finally caught up to reading about all of this and seeing the cartoons. Plus, I read the Newsweek interview with Flemming Rose concerning all of this and here are my thoughts:
Personally, people are just too damn sensitive. Period. In the US, immigrants (and illegals) want us to support them and change things for them. Be it having products with labels printed in English and Spanish, or having translators on hand. Hey... when my ancestors arrived in this country, they learned the HARD WAY that you yourself need to change to adapt, not the other way around.
In the Middle East, hell, that’s a tempest in a teapot and I really don’t know enough about it to comment one way or the other about politics. This latest conflab doesn’t change my opinion of those in that region: They’re just like “us”. “They” have their fruits and nuts, just like “we” do. Pat Robertson anybody? But I don’t think EVERYONE is like what we see on tv.
Should the Embassies have been burned? No and I hope (though it will NEVER happen) that the people responsible are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Should the Danes, French, German (any foreigner) be threatened over something that a countryman of theirs did? No. But that didn’t stop people from putting the Japanese-Americans / German-Americans in internment camps in the US during WWII for the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the actions of Hitler and his group.
Kachina and others are absolutely right about religion today: People are brainwashed to believe what their leaders tell them. They refuse to think for themselves because it might actually go against what their “prophet”, “minister”, “pastor”, “priest”, etc tells them is RIGHT / CORRECT. It’s one reason I walked away from Christianity 3 years ago and became Celtic Wiccan. I wanted to think for myself, and I couldn’t reconcile the teachings with MY beliefs.
Those that drew the cartoons or published them or whatever have apoligized. Get over yourselves. And before anyone else gets up in arms about my above comment, keep in mind that I’ve been attacked, ridiculed, abused for my beliefs. I’ve seen effigies of my Goddess / God defiled by those who do not / refuse to accept my religion. Does it bother me? Does a red-breasted robin have a red “vest”? I’ve learned to get over myself and accept that if I cannot teach someone to respect my beliefs as I do theirs, that they are not worth my time.
kachina008 said on February 5, 2006 20:45:
Judith: am not sure what you hope to achieve with your sarcasm, but if you read what I and others have said, you might realize that what you take from our comments is not what we have meant at all. So please dont take our words out of context and generalize them in this way. thanks.
kachina008 said on February 5, 2006 20:47:
If you think about it, almost every “joke” is at the expense of someone else, whether it is “blonde” jokes, or “fat” jokes, or “irish” jokes.
per_mson said on February 5, 2006 20:52:
@kachina008: Yes that could be they are. I am blond, but I don’t burn down stuff and being violent because of that people are making fun of my hair colour. I think this whole thing is as sick as it can be.
purplemedusa said on February 5, 2006 21:22:
Oh Ally, do let me know when ’em COOKIES arrive... I’ll bring the ginger tea then!!!
ally77 said on February 5, 2006 23:08:
How many catholics are offended by Dan Brown’s book... god help us when the film comes out! lol
Personally the extremists are doing this for world media attention and they’ve got it.... best to be honest to ignore them, they’ll soon get bored...
Anyone wishing they had a copy of this Danish newspaper to sell on eBay!!!! my guess it would go for a small fortune now! :)
LittleSpooky said on February 6, 2006 00:12:
This from The London Times:
Opinion - Matthew Parris
The Times February 04, 2006
So they have thin skins. That shouldn’t stop us poking fun at them
Matthew Parris
WRITING yesterday of the decision by this newspaper and others not to publish those now-infamous cartoons poking fun at Islam, my colleague Ben Macintyre suggested that “this is not a matter of kowtowing to pressure”. With respect, I think it is.
Publishing the cartoons a few weeks ago, before the drawings had achieved notoriety, would have been defensible, he argues, but to do so now in the midst of all the fuss, would not. With respect, I disagree. In fact giving publicity to a few offensive but rather weak cartoons showed doubtful judgment while they were unknown; but publishing them now they are the centre of a huge storm is more defensible.
Many readers will be curious to see the cause of the storm. How else can we judge?
A little candour is called for here. Those protesting against publication are not really doing so because they themselves do not wish to see these pictures. They do not want you or me to see them either. They do not want anyone to see them. They do not want them to exist.
Devising a means by which access to the images will be granted only to those who positively seek it is unlikely to satisfy the objectors, and nor should it: their religion has instructed them to keep God’s world unpolluted by such pictures and the sentiment and opinion that accompany them. This they believe to be their God’s demand.
I’m afraid we really do have to decide whether the demand is reasonable.
I do not think it is. I am not a Muslim. Nor am I a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu.
Now it’s very easy to murmur “I am not a Muslim/Christian/Jew/Hindu” as though not being something was terribly inoffensive — a sin, at worst, of omission; a way of avoiding an argument — the suggestion, perhaps, that “your” religion may be “true for you” but, as for me, I’ll sit this one out. But let us not duck what that “I do not believe” really means. It means I do not believe that there is one God, Allah, or that Muhammad is His Prophet. It means I do not believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, or that no man cometh to the Father except by Him. I do not believe that the Jews are God’s Chosen People, or subject to any duties different from the rest of us. It means I do not believe any living creature will be reincarnated in another life.
In my opinion these views are profoundly mistaken, and those who subscribe to them are under a serious misapprehension on a most important matter. Not only are their views not true for me: they are not true for them. They are not true for anyone. They are wrong.
Cutting through the babble of well-meaning souls who like to speak of the “community” of belief among “people of faith”, this must also be what the Muslim is saying to the Christian, Jew or Hindu; or what the Christian must be saying to the Jew, Hindu or Muslim. These faiths make demands and assert truths that are not compatible with the demands and truths of other faiths. To assert one must be to deny the others. Nor is it possible to reply, as some nice Anglicans try to, that “my faith does not exclude yours”. But if other faiths do exclude their Anglicanism, then those Anglicans must exclude those faiths because they must regard it as wrong of them exclude them. There is no faith-based equivalent to the “different strokes for different folks” maxim, unless other folks subscribe to it too. They do not.
I have dealt with the logic of the position. People of faith and people of none cannot escape attaching themselves to claims that are inherently offensive — and at the deepest level — to other people.
But offence implicitly offered, and offence actually taken, are two different matters. On the whole Christians, for example, take offence less readily than Muslims. The case for treating them, in consequence, differently is obvious, but we should be wary of it. It means groups are allowed to be as thin-skinned as they wish: to dictate for themselves how delicately we must tread with them — to create, as it were, their own definition of respect and require us to observe it. Those who do this may not always realise that that they create serious buried resentments among those of fellow-citizens who are more broad-shouldered about the trading of insult.
Muslims are not alone in this. I really hate the way some Israelis and their apologists become angry and rude whenever the state of Israel is criticised; the interviewees who jump down their interviewer’s throat the moment they dislike a line of questioning about Palestine; the readers who write — themselves offensively — to allege anti-Semitism when none was felt or intended, or bark at you if you talk about their “wall” rather than “fence”.
There is no doubting the result of this habit: we journalists are forever deleting a line here or a thought there because of the barrage of complaint we know would otherwise come from the Israel lobby. But does that lobby realise how much unvoiced hostility towards their cause this fans?
Many Turks react with similar aggression when the massacre of Armenians is mentioned. One takes care not to say “genocide” not because it wasn’t a genocide but because one cannot bear the prospect of all the furious letters from Turkish sympathisers. The Greek Cypriot lobby are equally explosive in their sensitivities. Having shot at, murdered and bombed the British when we were on the island, then oppressed the Turkish Cypriots, they begin the most almighty wail if anyone shows the least sympathy for the Turkish Cypriot cause, let alone says “Turkish coffee” instead of “Greek coffee”. I nearly threw my moussaka at a restaurateur the other day as he lectured me on how Britain had “abandoned” his island. I was quietly recalling the 1950s, as my mother worried every day my late father walked into work in Nicosia, fearful he would be shot by Eoka terrorists.
I am not happy that we should allow any group to define the terms on which we deal with their issues, however genuinely or deeply felt. They for their part should not suppose that the self-censorship they induce in the rest of Britain does them any favours in the end. It does not make us sympathetic, only wary of complaint.
Nevertheless, a conclusion some draw is that for the sake of a quiet life we might as well refrain from voicing criticisms we may feel towards any supersensitive group or cause, because our private thoughts, our private arguments, and those of our readers, remain our own, and uncensored. Others draw the conclusion that we should at least avoid gratuitous insults — the “damn your God” as opposed to the “I doubt His existence ” expressions — because they hurt real, decent people. I think this latter form of polite restraint is what Ben Macintyre was proposing.
The approach is tempting. It avoids hurt. But it overlooks, in the evolution of belief, the key role played by mockery. Many faiths and ideologies achieve and maintain their predominance partly through fear. They, of course, would call it “respect”. But whatever you call it, it intimidates. The reverence, the awe — even the dread — that their gods, their KGB or their priesthoods demand and inspire among the laity are vital to the authority they wield.
Against reverence and awe the best argument is sometimes not logic, but mockery. Structures of oppression that may not be susceptible to rational debate may in the end yield to derision. When people see that a priest, rabbi, imam or uniformed official may be giggled at without lightning striking the impertinent, arguments may be won on a deeper level than logic.
We should never, therefore, relinquish, nor lightly value, our right not to argue in the face of other people’s gods — but to fart.
ally77 said on February 6, 2006 06:25:
The BBC showed the pictures on breakfast tv on Friday morning...
Majdy said on February 6, 2006 10:16:
There won’t be conclusion in this such kind of discussion... Everyone will always have a different opinion.
But I personally admire the freedom of expression, speech and basically do anything we can as long we don’t harm no one.
However,
I don’t like when people making fun of other people religion or their anyone personal belief. I personally think it’s very immature because to some (and many) people, religion is very sensitive topic. But it’s a part of freedom, so if some people said bad things bout my religion, all I can do is try to ignore that and just never do the same thing.
I don’t like those people who doing things like burning the embassy or flags. I prefer that when we don’t like things, we showed that in respecful ways.
I don’t think that Denmark has to apologize, because like other member here said it’s only doing by small amount of people. Maybe the paper has to apologize, but not the whole country.
I’m sure many people on Denmark didn’t like the cartoon either and many moslem didn’t like the burn the flags and embassy thing.
and I just love peace...
that’s all.
Santi said on February 6, 2006 11:55:
I support Denmark, the states shouldn’t get into what the press should or should not publish. And if you don’t like it, don’t buy it, simple as that.
About the protests and boycotts in the muslim countries, it reminds me a lot of Spain and their stupid stuff with Catalonia. What they’re just going to get is less stability in those places and to scare off companies that could bring money there. That will go against themselves, because in this globalized world, international money coming to your area is just very important.
I don’t think Arla is going bankrupt because of these people not buying their products.
Ferdan said on February 6, 2006 12:43:
Muslims are only doing what christians used to do a few centuries ago.
Muslims haven´t killed the amount of people that was killed in name of christianity... yet.
Religious fanatism is the root of most evil on earth.
TinyBubbles said on February 6, 2006 13:32:
@Judith & Mari. I’m sorry but I still disagree with you. My grandmother once washed my mouth out with soap becuz I *used the lord’s name in vain* or something like that. In the school (Christian) I went to you could get expelled for obscene behaviour against Christianity (as a few kids in my standard were!) and I live in a devout Roman Catholic community where I tell ya now, such cartoons would not be appreciated. I once, out of ignorance, insulted a Saint and I paid the price haha. Do you not recall Harry Potter books being burned cuz Christians had a problem with them? In my hometown in South Africa those Pokeman toys and videos were burned cuz they were the devils work. I know I’m going offtopic a bit now – but just to show you – most devout Christians are no different. They take their religions very seriously too. Now I suspect you , like me, are not very religious yourselves and you live in an ever increasing secular society. These cartoons are funny to you as they are funny to me. Monty Python = hilarious. But we must understand that other people find these things insulting and we must have respect for it.
I will say that I don’t think the “average” devout Christian would react quite so badly. And I tried to make this point before. The “average” muslim is a great deal more passionate about his faith. We must try to understand and respect that. I am of course talking about the average muslim, NOT those extremists who are burning down embassies and flags and dressing up as suicide bombers. Those muslims are a different story all together.
“it only takes let’s say 5 of them with bombs to kill about 200 - if not more - of inocent victims.” >> Yeah and that is a problem that the entire world, including muslims, face.
@Burke .. I too think the Islamic leaders should be speaking out against the protesters’ actions. Otherwise they would seem to be agreeing with it and that would send out a wrong impression.
And lastly….
I thank god,
the devil,
the pope,
elvis presley,
the elves and the fairies,
the heavens above and the underworld ,
I thank all of the above THAT I AM NOT RELIGIOUS!! Amen.
WorldFalls said on February 6, 2006 15:17:
lawyer, Denmark didn’t do anything! Jyllands-Posten, a newspaper in Denmark published the cartoons. Why be angry at the whole country?
purplemedusa said on February 6, 2006 15:40:
Hold on... are these the ’bad’ cartoons? http://skender.be/supportdenmark/MohammedDrawings.jpg
Could anyone just please explain to this blondie what’s so offensive about them? (I’ve seen far worse cases of blasphemy in my time... !)
WorldFalls said on February 6, 2006 15:44:
Purple, yes, those are the cartoons that have the Muslim world at war against Denmark. Those images are the reason why embassies are being torched and threats on people’s lives are being made.
purplemedusa said on February 6, 2006 16:04:
“Purple, yes, those are the cartoons that have the Muslim world at war against Denmark. Those images are the reason why embassies are being torched and threats on people’s lives are being made. “
Yeah I got that part... but what about those cartoons are so outragously offensive?
WorldFalls said on February 6, 2006 16:34:
Purple, I sure have no answers for you. It all seems so overblown to me. If you’d like to see the subject debated by the Muslims and Danes (and others who support the Danes) you can go to
http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum39/
There you can read what the pissed off Muslims are saying. Warning; it’s not for the faintheated. They are threatening every kind of violence against the Danes on that board and it’s downright scary. I’ve tried to read what they have to say with an open mind, but it’s hard to get past the hatred and threats of violence long enough to figure out what their message really is.
tevensso (moderator) said on February 6, 2006 16:40:
Wow, that was some interesting thoughts from our “friends” the muslims... They surely do seem peaceful.
kachina008 said on February 6, 2006 17:05:
uh huh and what about the statements from the others? they aren’t exactly peaceful, are they?
WorldFalls said on February 6, 2006 17:12:
Kachina, they started out peaceful. I’ve read this message board for a long time and for years it was a quiet friendly board. About four days ago, the Muslims came by the dozens and started attacking the Danes and Denmark. For about a day, nobody said anything but after dozens of mean hateful posts, yes, people did start responding with angry, spiteful statements back. Can you really blame them? What if somebody came to this forum and started cussing at us and telling us we were all going to be killed and and hundreds of other mean statements? How long would it take before the people who have read and posted on this board for years started responding with anger back at them? I realize that two wrongs do not make a right, but the Muslims invaded that board; a board that was supposed to be about exchanging peaceful ideas. I can understand why they are so angry.
purplemedusa said on February 6, 2006 17:45:
This is ridiculous but I’m VERY curious to see what’s gonna happen! *gets the popcorn & crash helmit*
Strest said on February 6, 2006 18:57:
Santi: Arla loses more than $1 million Euros every day due to this and they’ve temporarily shut down their facilities in Riyad (where 800 people works).
ATM they’ll get to keep their jobs (as well as the other 400 people who works for them in the middle east), but if the boycot keeps up I suppose it’s only a matter of time before they start firing people.
In Denmark the employees are already in trouble. But they’re gonna try to reduce the working time instead of having to fire people.
In Bislev they’ve got 160 employees, but they only need 20-30 and in Akafa they need to get rid of about 35-40.
According to Jyske Bank about 11 200 Danish jobs can be in jeopardy if they start to boycot all Danish products.
The export to the islamic countries in the middle east is about 1.1% of the total Danish export.
zaine said on February 6, 2006 19:02:
i think that you gotta remember there is a *monster* difference between the extremist and the average joe.
I can see how the cartoons would make joe feel small, sad and angry etc. i can see how the extremists have taken this opportunity as an invitation to say that they are ganged up on etc.
but i think that most of us, as outsiders, should see the difference between the two. I think *that* above all, is the most important thing here. don’t judge ALL Muslims on the reactions the media is showing.
but at the the same time, keep your own opinion. share it if you want, but be open minded enough to realise that YES, this IS going to offend a LOT of people.
you know when you are a kid, at home you and your siblings are always fighting. always name calling etc, but as soon as it is someone else who does that to your little sister, you are the first one sticking up for her. well I was anyway. remember how that feeling is like. I guess that is what the Muslims would be feeling now. because, it is a very personal issue, especially if you come from a different back-ground religion etc
so, on the whole, i believe the extremists are not making things better. I also believe that western society needs to open its eyes and it’s mind a bit and realise that things like this will have a consequence. maybe its not the right consequence, but why push your luck and publish those things in the forst place?
in my eyes, it was asking for trouble
purplemedusa said on February 6, 2006 20:03:
Ooo I’m so gonna get fat from all the popcorn! The plot thickens... Bush sympthized with Muslims & Clinton critized the Danish! Wooohooo, very creative guys!!
On a serious note - I do believe that change happens with blasphemy... the mere act of it challenges the previously unchallenged!!
I am however concerned with the way people are expressing their views in public... the forum as mentioned above is horrific and the images that’s being presented in the media are even more damaging than the nutorous cartoons!!
ally77 said on February 6, 2006 20:18:
Nice words Zaine, my thoughts exactly....
The small minority of Muslins are sadly giving everyone a bad name, but I would like to think people can look past that, I am not going to start ignoring the corner shop, the man in the post office, my friends at work because of what these other muslins are doing... I have to remember it’s just a small minority that are bringing the relgion of islam down....
It’s kind of like the British football hooligans that cause trouble, a small few and the whole of England are put down!
LittleSpooky said on February 6, 2006 20:27:
Hey... Denmark: Send me some stuff. I’ll try to peddle it round town here.
Seriously? Shit like this needs to stop happening. Get thicker skin folks. If the little stuff is gonna start a brouhaha like this... I’m afraid to see what the “big” stuff’s gonna do.
sommartiderhejhej said on February 6, 2006 21:08:
I haven’t read all replies, so maybe I am replying some things somebody else already has said.
A few things:
- Those cartoons were published a few months ago, why didn’t they bother the first months?
[possible explanation: they are so stupid, it took them a few months to get the clue].
- If you blame a whole country and its citizens for something that a few people have done; and which is their right of free speach, you are totally insane.
- Forbidding to publish these cartoons means an end of democracy. Those guys don’t know the word “democracy”.
- It is clear they were looking for a reason to hit the western world, because at this moment not only the Danes are being threatened, but other countries as well. If the cartoons would be the only reason, they should only aim for Danmark.
Jud (moderator) said on February 6, 2006 21:50:
Anyway, however offended they felt, if they want to seak for respect, there are many ways of solving problems before getting to violence, I could think of dialogue, but I wonder if they know what that is down there. What they are trying to achieve now is not respect but coaction, threatening with violence, revenge. It took us more than 500 years to get where we are with the Catholic church, in some places it’s still being worked out, and I personally don’t want to lose what we achieved so far because of some fanatic brain-dead.
Some months ago they had a play in a theater in Madrid called “me cago en Dios” (hm, damn God or f**k God if you want), you can imagine what it was about. Sure Catholic/Christian complained about the play, but nor was the author/director threatened to death neither did anybody set the theater/ministery of culture on fire.
Mind that in these countries the government/dictators / whatever you wanna call the ones that rule the countries control everything that comes in, specially media. Ain’t it a coincidence that these drawings found their way to ALL citizens (not only the few privilegied ones with ie internet access and maybe a little more brain of their own), NOW (they were published first time in Sept!) that Iran is watched by many because of nuclear weapons?
I just read the cartoons were also published in Malaysia, where Islam is the official religion, I take it’s true since it stands on a good Spanish newspaper..
Santi said on February 6, 2006 22:30:
I bet 99,9% of the people demonstrating on the streets all against Denmark haven’t even seen the cartoons.
Jud (moderator) said on February 6, 2006 22:51:
http://web.lavanguardia.es/mtk/20060206/lvg200602060181lbI001.jpg595.jpg
I guess you can understand the text :D
para = for
roxtexanet said on February 7, 2006 05:36:
@Tiny: You said it: I’ve never been prouder to be an atheist.
It’s time for a revolution: not ONE MORE drop of blood in the name of religion. Enough is enough.
WorldFalls said on February 7, 2006 10:53:
Here’s something positive for a change!
http://www.sorrynorwaydenmark.com/
tcooh said on February 7, 2006 12:11:
Right now a norwegian peace keeping ISAF (UN) camp in Afganistan is under attack from agressive demonstrants of about 200-300. Two norwegian soldiers have been confirmed injured from granats thrown into their camp. Two dutch airplanes have shot warning shots above the demonstrants, and more reenforments in airplanes and troops are on the way. About 60 people is trapped in the camp at the moment, mainly norwegians, but also finns, swedes and latvians.
carbon_boy said on February 7, 2006 13:16:
Ok. Here’s my 2cents on this whole crazy debacle.
Firstly, I’m all for freedom of the press (as some of you may know), but I’m actually sitting on the fence as far as the cartoons go. They shouldn’t have been printed considering the current religous climate and what’s happening in the Middle-East. Smack on the hand for the newspaper. BUT then again, worse things have been said and done to the Christians and Jews. Never saw them burning down buildings and holding ppl hostage.
Secondly Jehova, the Xtian God and Allah should not be depicted according to these religions. Their reason for not allowing the depiction of Mohammed is supposedly so that he cannot be idolised - like the virgin Mary and Jesus. That is their big problem with the whole affair.
The Muslims however have elevated Mohammed to God status. They can say what they want. Mohammed was only a prophet. And let’s face it, he ain’t no Jesus Christ either (Christ said, “Turn the other cheek”. Mohammed said, “Blow them up and Allah will let you into Heaven”).
Thirdly, the fact that they are going off their rockers is just going to cause more problems... for them. Most of the world already look at all of Islam in a bad light. This is not helping.
They are just proving once again that they see violence as an answer.
ally77 said on February 7, 2006 15:39:
Is this still in the news, I kind of got bored with it all now and started to ignore the Middle East!
The guy who protested in the UK at the weekend and dressed as a suicide bomber, apoligsed this morning, after he was sent back to prison for break his licence rules....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4687996.stm
kachina008 said on February 7, 2006 19:29:
And then there’s this:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/07/film.brokeback.humor.ap...
:D
Jud (moderator) said on February 7, 2006 20:14:
:P This happens to most good films ;)
The best I think is the parody of Startrek, Traumschiff Surprise :D
see poster:
http://www.poster.net/traumschiff-surprise/traumschiff-surprise-periode-...
Or shall gay get to the streets and destroy everything that comes our way? ;) Maybe we can contract some of those down there, as some of you think they have no clue what they are demonstrating about, maybe we can cheat them to join a gay parade :D
And last but not least:
http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/default.htm
So it’s fine to draw caricatures as long as it’s not about them or?
Majdy said on February 7, 2006 23:16:
The protester in Indonesia has moved from Danish Embassy to US embassy. Wonder why?
tevensso (moderator) said on February 7, 2006 23:22:
Probably because they don’t really care who they hate as long as it’s westerners.
Oldag75 said on February 8, 2006 00:06:
Shouldn’t Denmark respond in the fashion in which the rest of the world wanted the USA to respond to 9/11 – Shouldn’t Danes ask themselves “Why do they hate us?” and to reach out to these religious freedom-fighters, and make every effort to understand, appreciate and champion their culture, to appease them, to give in to their demands, to let them have their way? Isn’t that the way everyone else wanted America to deal with differently-cultured people, like those in Germany in the 1930s? Reach out to them, establish a dialogue, develop a relationship, imagine no possessions, it’s easy if you can, nothing to live or die for, a brotherhood of man.....
roxtexanet said on February 8, 2006 01:32:
^^
Reach out and establish a dialogue with the religious freedom-fighters... what a great idea! Thanks for this wonderful suggestion, Oldag. Very liberal-minded of you.
Santi said on February 8, 2006 01:51:
@Judith: Well, about “Me cago en Dios”, they tried to hit the writer, as far as I know (I listened one of the actors saying that today on tv).
Jud (moderator) said on February 8, 2006 07:12:
Santi I cannot recall any mass demonstration, burning down of any building or threatening of slicing off the head of anybody because of that play, but anyway, I thought the church was overreacting, same thing, they ask for respect but they don’t respect others unless they are catholic.. and I critisise any kind of violent reaction like what we have seen in the last days coming from _any_ group of people, because of religion or anything else, but it just happens that these people are violent too often, while at the same time they demand for respect and tolerance and whatever else, as long as they behave like this, they won’t get it from me (and I don’t mean ALL muslims, I mean THOSE down there which are not less)
Ferdan said on February 8, 2006 13:01:
stupid people, they were threatening to pillage the argentine embassy just because it was near the danish one.
Santi said on February 13, 2006 03:39:
I think there are way too many interestedly induced misunderstandings in this case, that the big media in the West could and should solve it by publishing the real stuff and that some muslim authorities claim respect for Islam by not showing the stuff but want us all in the west to think that muslims are so paranoid (we who have seen the real stuff, not what the Danish Imams created themselves) for some hidden and unknown reason.
If you push me more, those who created the fake cartoons (the dogs, the pig... etc... which were what really ignited the revolt) should be treated according to that islamic law they hold so dearly. Because they actually did commit blasphemy, not the Danish artists.
And in my opinion it would be good if Muslims apologized for all this childish overreaction and blamed their leaders for all this display of stupidity they’re granting the whole wide world.
Jud (moderator) said on February 13, 2006 06:42:
yes I was wondering, all those (muslim) demonstrations in London and other EUropean cities demanding the artists to appologize.. why not demand that those savages who have burned buildings to appologize too? ;)
LittleSpooky said on February 20, 2006 17:00:
Only to drag this up to the top again, some GOOD points have been made. I’ve emphasized them using **:
Iranian Urges End to Violence Over Drawings
By CONSTANT BRAND, Associated Press Writer
37 minutes ago
BRUSSELS, Belgium - Iran’s foreign minister called Monday for an end to violent protests over the Prophet Muhammad caricatures that have left at least 45 people dead in the Muslim world during the past month.
Pope Benedict XVI also tried to soothe the tensions, saying religious symbols must be respected but violence can never be justified. Malaysia’s prime minister warned that mistrust and fear of Islam is growing every day in the West.
In Afghanistan, where 11 people were killed in three days of prophet protests earlier this month, about 2,000 students protested Monday, shouting “Long live Osama!,” burning Danish and American flags and photos of President Bush.
In Indonesia, about 100 protesters shouting “God is Great!” burned a Danish flag in Java province, a day after protesters attacked the American Embassy in the capital, Jakarta.
“We should try to cool down the situation. We do not support any violence,” Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said during a visit to Brussels.
***But he also cautioned that freedom of expression must be exercised with sensitivity and full respect of other people’s values and beliefs.*** (This is where some of the folks went wrong in reprinting these cartoons, imo)
“We are facing ... angry Muslims all around the world. We have to try our best to avoid any violence. This is what we are trying to do in Iran,” he said during a news conference at Iran’s embassy to the European Union.
“So many of our policemen were attacked by angry people on the streets.”
Mottaki said he had contacted European foreign ministers as well as officials from Islamic countries, trying to calm the protests.
The caricatures first printed in a Danish newspaper in September and republished recently in other European papers, offended many Muslims. One depicted the prophet with a turban shaped like a bomb with a lit fuse.
Demonstrations have turned increasingly violent and claimed at least 45 lives worldwide, including 15 who died in Nigeria on Saturday and 10 killed in the Libyan coastal city of Benghazi on Friday.
The Libyan riot outside the Italian consulate apparently was sparked by a right-wing Italian Cabinet minister who wore a T-shirt bearing one of the prophet caricatures. (Dumbshit!)
Danish Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller warned extremists would try to exploit the anger over the drawing. He condemned a Pakistani cleric’s offer last week of a $1 million bounty for killing one of the cartoonists behind the drawings as “insane” and tantamount to terrorism.
“It’s the extremist forces that wish to keep it going,” he told reporters in Copenhagen. “There is no doubt that all extremists will exploit the situation. Al-Qaida, too, will use it and fan the fire.”
He noted that protests have been tapering off in many Arab countries, while escalating in Pakistan and Turkey.
***”When money is put on the cartoonists’ heads, then terror is also being used,” Moeller said after meeting with Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere. “It’s incitement to murder. Murder is also banned by the Quran.”*** (So basically, the cleric who offered the bounty is a liar. He’s not Muslim in any shape or form because he’s put a price on someone’s head to have them murdered. Too bad they can’t check is butt right out of there and have him defrocked or whatever)
In Pakistan, radical Islamic leaders called for more prophet drawings protests after the upcoming Friday Muslim prayers and lawmakers disrupted a session of Parliament, protesting sweeping arrests before a banned demonstration over the weekend.
The rallies in Pakistan appear to be taking on more of an anti-government dimension. Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf is a close ally of the United States.
*****Iran’s foreign minister said European governments were being hypocritical in their respect for freedom of expression, pointing to the example of Holocaust deniers, who he said were being put in jail for expressing their opinions.
“When we are talking about the freedom of expression ... it is very strange to see some European authors, some European members of parties are kicked out from their post or their position because they are making or creating some doubt about some part of some historical happening,” Mottaki said.***** (Yep, that falls under the definition of hypocritical in Mirriam-Webster’s dictionary, unabridged or otherwise)
In predominantly Muslim Malaysia, Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi called for a high-level dialogue between Muslims and the West to prevent disputes such as the one over the prophet drawings and offered to host talks.
Abdullah told the Associated Press in an interview the reprinting of the cartoons by some European newspapers in the name of freedom of press was a grave provocation, especially when the Muslim world is gripped with a sense of injustice over the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.
“In fact there was already lack of trust, and now what has happened has further (exacerbated it),” he said. “It makes us feel that we are living in a world of fear and that’s no good.”
Asked whether the drawings controversy indicated that Europe was becoming xenophobic and anti-Islam, Abdullah said: “I fear that this feeling toward Islam is deteriorating today, and that is a very sad thing.”
The pope also tried to encourage calm.
“It is necessary and urgent that religions and their symbols are respected, and that believers are not the object of provocations that harm their progress and their religious feelings,” Benedict said.
“However, intolerance and violence can never be justified as responses to offenses. One can only deplore the actions of those who profit deliberately from the offense caused to religious feelings to foment violence.”
Last week, Benedict expressed support for peaceful demonstrations in the Muslim world against the cartoons.
Sparvogamarie said on February 24, 2006 07:15:
I think the cartoons were an excellent excuse for a continuation of this “jihad” that has already been going for years. The ones in power used the cartoons as “fuel for the fire” that was already burning. They were blowing up stuff before this, and they’ll blow it up after. It was very foolish of the newspaper to do anything to provoke a group that was already angry...though I do support their right to free speech.
Has anyone heard of Kevin Smith? He made movies like Chasing Amy, Jay and Silent Bob etc. He also made one called Dogma which made fun of Christianity and Catholosism. Someone asked him if he would make a sequel to Dogma, and he said this: “Scary thing is this: the film would have to touch on Islam. And unlike the Cathloic League, when those cats don’t like what you do, they issue a death warrant on yer ass (see Rushdie). And now that I’ve got a family, I’m not as free to stir the s**t-pot as I was when I was single, back when I made “Dogma”. I mean, now I’ve gotta think about more than my own safety and well-being.”
Jud (moderator) said on March 2, 2006 06:27:
so.. it looks like Spain is closer to those people in the Middle East than I thought:
For those who speak Spanish:
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/03/01/madrid/1141253912.html
ally77 said on March 5, 2006 07:20:
There was someone on the news the other day going on about how other countries had no need to follow and publish and that the BBC should not have shown them on the news....
Anyone else bored with this now...
tevensso (moderator) said on February 4, 2006 01:03:
http://www.supportdenmark.com