Starrox said on November 3, 2004 06:32:

Well, I hope not, but I think he will! :-( It all depends on Ohio now...

Jud (moderator) said on November 3, 2004 07:22:

of course. I mean if he became a president the last time without winning.. what do you think now that he had 4 years IN the government to arrange everything he has to arrange to win?

carbon_boy said on November 3, 2004 08:09:

They never learn do they?

Starrox said on November 3, 2004 09:04:

I feel sorry for you, I honestly do! I really can’t imagine what it must be like to see your fellow citizens voting for someone as controversial as George W. Bush!
BTW, I think it’s pretty telling that Bush got most of his electoral votes from rural states and Kerry those from the more urban ones...

per_mson said on November 3, 2004 10:38:

@Worldfalls: Well, sorry for that! I did of course not really mean that ALL Americans are stupid. All you who voted Kerry do have a brain. ;-) But I still think it is strange so many actually did vote for Bush. That’s beyond what I can understand.

Kiwein1 said on November 3, 2004 11:05:

Kerry won Wisconsin - there’s some hope left!

Kiwein1 said on November 3, 2004 11:14:

@Worldfalls: there have been some votings in Germany and more than 70% would have voted for Kerry - so yes, there’s a world besides conservative life. :)

Kiwein1 said on November 3, 2004 11:21:

Haha, sure you can! At least homosexual marriages are possible nearly everywhere here. :) And nobody’s deciding to participate in a war - but of course there are a lot of other problems, unemployment is quite high and social problems are big. :(

Mari said on November 3, 2004 13:16:

And USA is democratic country, yeah, right.

coyboyusa said on November 3, 2004 14:28:

did anyone reallt think that they counld unseat a wartime president. And lets be honest Kerry didnt’ have a very clear defined goal in terms of the american economy, the ” war” on terror...all he would say is we have a plan. The you have the retards at MTV the faked the rumour that bush was going to enact a new draft, which turned alot of peoel off because MTV was very obvioulsy leaning towards the dems to begin with.

i for one didn’t vote because i know when it came donw to the wire I would have had reasons to elect them both, and in the end it would have been my indecision that won and thats not right. Besides bush also got the popular vote which he didn’t last time, I think that speaks more about the election than anything else, especially since alot of the kids serving in iraq come from the mid west and the south, if their families didnt’ want bush in office he would not have won.

ncurran said on November 3, 2004 15:29:

well it seems like there is little hope for kerry now. Only 2 electoral votes in it, but it seems it is pretty certain bush will win ohio. I find it shocking that half of the american electorate seem to be as stupid as bush is himself. I am glad i am not american....
And i say that not trying to be anti-american, but i am so glad i am not american right now....the sad thing is, living in korea where they tend to assume that every white person is american, this will make my life more difficult, not in a big way, but after controversial events in american/world politics, there are always big demonstrations here and some attacks on foreigners..looks like i will have to watch my back a bit more.
I am appalled by this really....and its scary when you look at the map....the coastline on both sides tinted with the blue colour of the democrats, and the red mass in the middle brainwashed by bush and isolated from the rest of the world.

Kiwein1 said on November 3, 2004 16:17:

She would have made it this year - I am quite sure! :)

Jud (moderator) said on November 3, 2004 16:49:

I think the ban of gay marriages is :O

I mean here in Europe we have countries that simply don’t aprove laws for gay marriages/unions/partnerships but at least (let’s cross fingers :O) we aren’t going backwards - we stay where we are..

I saw Moore’s 9/11 the other day.. while of course one can’t believe all that’s shown there and one has to filter what’s propaganda and what’s not.. it is scary (and a fact) all the relationship between the Bin Ladens + Bush..

I guess now we can only sit and wait to see what country will be hit next (and hope our country won’t participate in it) :(

ncurran said on November 3, 2004 17:53:

well i for one will now boycott american products for the next 4 years as a matter of principle.

Jud (moderator) said on November 3, 2004 18:11:

who says we are all american? ;)

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 18:22:

There’s a festering pit of lowlife humanity in the middle east that values death more than life, and would love nothing more than to destabilize western civilation. THEY are the world’s enemy – and not any American elected official who periodically must go to his/her people and ask to be re-elected to the job.

StillFar said on November 3, 2004 18:42:

Oldag: I get your point and I understand your concerns about your security.
But considering a war that was based on what turned out not to be true, many miscalculations by the Bush Gang, after killing an internationally estimated 100 000 innocent people (mostly women and children) in Iraq, do you really believe your war on terror is heading the right direction? Don’t you see a possibility that with what that policiy has done you achieved the complete contrary?

lonely_girl said on November 3, 2004 18:54:

unfortunately! Kerry just declared his defeat...

>:-(((

Vixzter said on November 3, 2004 18:55:

@coyboyusa: finaly i can see where ure coming from! :)

as for boycotting american products.....look around, you may find that harder than u think.....are you going to be boycotting products made in america? or american owned companies that make a product?

who wears nike trainers/clothes?? drives a vauxhall/opel/volvo/

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 19:05:

It’s true the war in Iraq was not conducted the best it could have been. It should have been more ruthless. There should have been no safe zones, such as religious buildings. The way you win a war is to kill as many of the enemy as you can – or make them fear they will be killed, and spend themselves into collapse as happened with Russia – until they change their politics. That had to be done with Japan and Germany. It will have to be done with terrorists and those who abet them.

As for the basis of the war, the evidence was presented to the US Congress, for approval of a resolution to use force in Iraq. Twenty-nine Democrat senators (members of the party that hates Bush, including Kerry and Edwards, and Hillary Clinton) voted FOR approving that resolution. If they thought the evidence was faulty, they should have voted against it. It’s important to watch how people behave, rather than merely believe what they say. Whatever they said at any time, they voted FOR the use of force. The president had to seek their permission, and they gave it.

I have never mentioned the US on this site until today, because ignorant, adolescent-thinking people have adduced pejorative statements about the US.

Let a bunch of death-worshipping kooks fly jets into some of your buildings, and murder 3,000 of your innocent civilians – and watch folks in other nations take to the streets and cheer about your misfortune – and then let’s see whether your thinking is impacted.

Starrox said on November 3, 2004 19:13:

“I have never mentioned the US on this site until today, because ignorant, adolescent-thinking people have adduced pejorative statements about the US.”

Actually, I wonder who’s more ignorant here...

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 19:47:

As many teenagers act like adults, it is eminently possible for anyone of any age to possess an adolescent mentality – a sense of entitlement, a demand for immediate gratification, a foundation of immaturity. The US Democrat Party convincingly demonstrates that.

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 20:09:

That’s okay, it’s the sort of expression an adolescent would employ.

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 20:19:

US citizens are the only people who have the right to vote in US elections.

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 20:33:

Responsibility indeed can be difficult, which is why a great many people avoid it.

coyboyusa said on November 3, 2004 20:55:

and as for the next for years, its now up to all americans and the peopel they’ve elected to public offices to make sure bush gives them what they want. Noone can afford to rest on their laurels and just let things slip by. I knwo I for one will be keeping an eye on my senators and they think they vote for and how many times they actually show up for votes, something everyone who’s registered to vote should do. God bless america and the wrold in general, hopefulll the hated between everyone is over and we can get back to what matters, peace cooperation and civility, something that god burried under alot of rhetoric the past year

coyboyusa said on November 3, 2004 21:03:

ok i wish this coudl fit into all one posting, I am backing up to the comment about america having true allies. I’d encourage everyone to pick up this weeks copy of news week. The ending editorial in the magazine touches on an issue alot ofopeople seem to be ignoring. Alot of our supposed allies are now under investigation for skimming huge profits off of the oil for food program run by the untied nations. Russia, china france germany and as many as 10 counties were selling weapons to iraq. this isnt disputed this is fact. These un members who champion democracy were selling weapons to a dictator while the peopel of iraq suffered. Don’t get me wrong, yes iraq is a quarmire, anyone going in knew this was going to happen, if the world as a whole had and balls back during the first bush and allowed the coalition to unseat saddam then thing probably would have been different.
And to the comment claiming america isn’t safer now. America will never ever be “safer”. There is no way to 100% asafeguard agaist a nut case be them home grown or international. Just recently a large group of muslim scholars sent a delcalartion out asking the internation community to indict alot of mulsim clerics for inciting terrorism in their fatwas, of holy decrees. I coudl never have imagined the mess had al gore been president during 911. I don’t think I want to.
and per mason i for one definatley do not think i own the world i mean honestly cummon thats abit adoolescent on your part and no i am not flaming you. Yeah americans are a bit pig headed, mayb its a bad thing but at times its a great thing

coyboyusa said on November 3, 2004 21:09:

oops

Oldag75 said on November 3, 2004 21:16:

Where did the money they found in Iraq go?

Yeah, the Iraqi regime, Saddam especially, had a LOT of cash – piles and piles of US Dollars. Why didn’t he have Euros, or pesos?

Money is important: Money is the tool of exchange by which one measures productivity. Money is possible only because goods/services were produced. People who criticize someone for respecting money, don’t have a grasp of the difficulty of producing the goods/services that make that money valuable in trade. That’s why dictators hoard US Dollars – they know the Dollars are actually worth something.

coyboyusa said on November 3, 2004 21:23:

oldag lol, dont tarnish the us dollar by making it the bedmate of dictators. As for the comment about profiling, they do it very often in alot fo countires, and honeslty tell me this, if american’s hypotheically hijacked 2 commerical airliners and say crahced them into the uk parliment, u meant to tell me that every american that ever set foot on uk land wouldnt’ be the object of scrutiny. And the arab world wouldn’t be under such a mircoscope if they voiced outrage over past events, to this date the majority of muslims have kept silence and thats what make me and alot of americans not trust them. noones asking for american allegiance, we would liek to knwoi that there is an ounce of humanity in the muslim world and every day that they keep silent it makes me doubt that more and more

purplemedusa said on November 3, 2004 21:25:

No honey, I don’t tolerate abuse!!

Starrox said on November 3, 2004 21:27:

@Oldag75: Maybe you should take a look at the exchange rate between € and $, it’s rather good right now - if you want to buy $...

per_mson said on November 3, 2004 21:30:

@Oldag75: Why are you always bragging about democracy and freedom of speech? It doesn’t really feel like those things still exist in the US.

purplemedusa said on November 3, 2004 21:35:

Eric... it seems that you’ve grown ALOT!! Respect!!

purplemedusa said on November 3, 2004 21:45:

coyboy(eric) and for anyone that’s interested; do yourself a favour and get hold of literature by Noam Chompsky! U might find it very interesting academic reading!!

coyboyusa said on November 3, 2004 22:25:

thanks purple :)

i am not comfortable with bush’s religious platform either, but as a leader hey we get what we elect.

on_a_mission said on November 3, 2004 23:39:

er yes.for an interesting parody see http://www.jibjab.com

click ’this land’

Ferdan said on November 4, 2004 06:40:

Seen that you hardly answer any question, I´ll try to make this post more rethoric.
Oldag75
—————————————-
“”Everyone elsewhere in the world is welcome to boycott the US. Give nothing to the US – and

take absolutely nothing from the US (no foreign aid, no armed forces protection, nothing).

And we shall see exactly who truly needs whom.”“
————————————————–

I´d really love to have the US isolated in it´s own land, but we can´t. You are claiming that

the US needs the world less than what the world needs the US. Then answer me, why the fck the

US is allways kept trying to define the internal politics of the rest of the

world?(organizing cups, supporting dictators, financing lobby groups, arming dissidents)

especially southamerican countries (the very latest case was Chavez in Venezuela). Then, are

you saying the US is going to survive for long without Middle East oil and Venezuelan oil?

don´t make me laugh. Then, why do you think the US is outsourcing so many jobs? a whole

industry needs foreigners doing jobs it would collapse in no time if the US didn´t have those

cheap working hand foreigners.
Then you mention foreign aid, most of the US foreign aid goes to Israel and Egypt!(Egypt

because you signed a treaty with them so they don´t attack Israel), and the US is one of the

developed countries that gives the least foreign aid in % of GDP. (Nordic countries and Japan

give more % of GDP to foreign aid, and Japan sometimes surpases the net foreign aid of the

US). The only thing that the US is best at exporting right now, and necesary to the world is

scientifical research. Most of the products under American firms that we(in the rest of the

world) buy are made somewhere else than the US.
About your mention of military aid, I´ll be really glad if the US stops coercing/bribering

lesser countries using military aid funds. The last example of this is the pre-war stage,

were the US treatened lesser countries that they´d lose military aid if they didn´t support

the US. (as everything I mention, it´s been on the major news in the international

community).
——————————————-
“”There’s a festering pit of lowlife humanity in the middle east that values death more than

life, and would love nothing more than to destabilize western civilation. THEY are the

world’s enemy – and not any American elected official who periodically must go to his/her

people and ask to be re-elected to the job.”“
—————————————————
Western civilization as that we live on the west? or as that we have built systems that are

supposed to be based on secularism,democracy,freedom,honesty and peace?
Simply because someone is American or is westerner doesn´t make him/her stand for the values

I mentioned. So people, as you said, that are the “world’s enemy” and “lowlife humanity that

values death more than life” exist in both sides of the geographic world. That´s why I

conclude that Bush is also an enemy of what the West stands for, Secularism (Bush seems to

forget he´s an official in a secular government), democracy(the US system if far away from a

democracy, but I can´t blame Bush for that, so I´ll blame him for believing that the rest of

the world´s opinion don´t hold value and for saying that we are either with them or against

them), freedom(Patriot Act), honesty(missled everyone with purposely selected bad

intelligence) and peace(started a war in a wrong place, wrong time and wrong world stage).
————————————————
“”It’s true the war in Iraq was not conducted the best it could have been. It should have

been more ruthless. There should have been no safe zones, such as religious buildings.”“
——————————————–
The war to kick saddam and his loyals out was won without anything you said. So you wanted a

more ruthless war? Over 100000 INNOCENTS, women and children included, have died as direct

result of it. You wanted a more ruthless war? Why not nuke them instead?... oh, OIL has to be

kept intact. Right?
Most of the people US is fighting against right now are called INSURGENTS, they are no Saddam

loyals, they are Iraqis that want the US, the INVADERS out of their OWN country, their OWN

land. The US got there to liberate those people, now those people do not want the US there.

So you want to kill them all as well? How many people you wanted to see dead? 300000?
————————————————–
“”The way you win a war is to kill as many of the enemy as you can – or make them fear they

will be killed, and spend themselves into collapse as happened with Russia – until they

change their politics. That had to be done with Japan and Germany.”“
—————————————————
The US killed almost all Saddam loyalists, the rest already surrendered, so I really don´t

know what you´re talkign about.
—————————————————-
“”It will have to be done with terrorists and those who abet them.”“
—————————————————-
The US supported many terrorist states for a long time, funded many states that harbored

terrorists, and funded terrorist groups to fight another “evil”.
are you willing to nuke yourself?
—————————————————–
“”As for the basis of the war, the evidence was presented to the US Congress, for approval of

a resolution to use force in Iraq. Twenty-nine Democrat senators (members of the party that

hates Bush, including Kerry and Edwards, and Hillary Clinton) voted FOR approving that

resolution. If they thought the evidence was faulty, they should have voted against it. It’s

important to watch how people behave, rather than merely believe what they say. Whatever they

said at any time, they voted FOR the use of force. Whatever they said at any time, they voted

FOR the use of force. The president had to seek their permission, and they gave it.”“
———————————————————
The evidence was purposely faulted because it was finger picked and distorted by the official

administration, for example the Kay report said there wasn´t WMD, then BUSH in one of his

annual speeches said the Kay report stated there was some kind of WMD. Guess what did this

Kay guy do the next day after Bush´s speech? He Resigned. He resigned and said that Bush got

it all wrong purposely. well, after that he and his WIFE faced a savage prosecution that put

her life in risk (she was a spy and the government released her name, that is a serious

federal offense).
So I don´t care if the gave them permission or not, Bush govt. misled them aswell, most of

international intelligence and inspectors said there wasn´t WMD or that they needed more time

to tell. But nothing as to support a full scale invasion.

—————————————
“”I have never mentioned the US on this site until today, because ignorant,

adolescent-thinking people have adduced pejorative statements about the US.”“
——————————————
You are the adoslecnt thinking one here if you think there is nothing wrong to say about the

US. Oh, you are finding people that thinks your country isn´t as good as you been believing?
welcome to reality, face it like an adult.
As someone mentioned, read Noam Chomsky for example, I doubt you reach his level of

education, his mental and phisical age, so I dount you´d call him an adolescent thinking as

well.
——————————————
“”Let a bunch of death-worshipping kooks fly jets into some of your buildings, and murder

3,000 of your innocent civilians – and watch folks in other nations take to the streets and

cheer about your misfortune – and then let’s see whether your thinking is impacted. “”
————————————————–
Many people of this forums suffered terrorist attacks in their land way before than the US

(myself for example, twice almost 10 years ago), and many of our countries reacted in more

civil, rational and intelligent way than yours(or Israel´s or Russia´s). Oh, so terrorism

catched your door? it was about time, now learn to deal with it properly with intelligence

and rationalism.

Markuz said on November 4, 2004 06:52:

OMG Ferdan, I´m impressed!!

I agree 100% with you!

per_mson said on November 4, 2004 08:33:

@vix: Shame! You replied AGAIN!!! ;-)))

@Ferdan: Great message!!!!! :-)) I hope this person will finally answer the questions now!

Oldag75 said on November 4, 2004 12:16:

Someone with a solid grasp of reality wrote, “Life’s a tough principal who won’t reward the losers.”

Which means you can either get to work and try to win, or simply continue wallowing in defeat, squealing and whining and mewing. It’s your choice.

ncurran said on November 4, 2004 17:13:

what really gets to me is....dont americans (and i mean the 51% who voted for bush, not the kerry supporters) care about what the rest of the world thinks about them? Do they really believe that having Bush in power makes them safer?
And how can people be this ignorant and stupid? I find it disturbing aswell that the richest country in the world is so polarised in 2 camps, and that religious extremism still has such a strong influence. And in the “land of freedom” they vote in 11 states to take away rights of gay people. America is ahead most of the world in many ways, but socially and culturally it feels like they are 20 years behind Europe in big portions of the country. I feel so sorry for some of the american friends i have...here is one of the emails i got this morning from an american friend who teaches in korea.

“I can’t really talk coherently about Bush being re-elected (or elected for
the first time, if you view his first four years as an appointment, as I
do). I kept telling myself it would happen and to be ready for it, but it
still hit me like a punch in the face from a sweaty drunk guy named Bubba.
I also noticed that 11 states passed constitutional amendments banning gay
marriage. Amendments. This is the shit they used to do to blacks to keep
them down. My country is slipping backward into a moral morass of
self-decreed righteousness that I cannot bear to hear about, let alone live
in. I am remaining abroad until the current set backs pass. I will return
(to live) when people there begin to show that they are ready to deal with
the reality. Sadly, that day may not come in my lifetime.”

How truly sad... :(

just to lighten the mood....heres another one of these spoof songs, this time set to Bohemian Rhapsody
http://www.yonkis.com/mediaflash/eeuu.htm

Oldag75 said on November 4, 2004 17:51:

It’s true, the USA is a horrible place. That’s why the tyrannical US government has been forced to put up walls with armed guards to prevent US citizens from leaving here and fleeing en masse to Mexico, Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela and other South American states (nearby bastions of idyllic socialism and universal prosperity).

Incidentally, John Kerry opposes gay marriage. Where is all the criticism for Kerry, on that issue? (Kerry’s opposition to gay marriage is just another of the billions of factors that make/keep the USA such a terrible place.)

StillFar said on November 4, 2004 19:32:

Coyboy that’s exactly what I find deeply disturbing about the US. There is this unwritten law saying that you’re not allowed to name civilians killed by American forces. I watched a lot of American news over the last months and last week was the first time I saw someone (Paula Zahn) questioning if the number of Iraqi civilian casualties shouldn’t be stronger considered.

Civilians get killed and from my point of view the death of an Iraqi civilian isn’t less worth than the death of an American civilian. Now from the way I see, Americans do think that a war is just a way to achieve a goal and once you have achieved that goal the only thing you might look back to with regrets is the military men and women you lost.

There’s more to a war than that. There is NEVER pure good against pure evil. It’s sad to see that people see only that one side of the war and don’t see what is connected to it, how many lives it affects, how much suffering it causes.

I do not disrespect a military person by questioning the number of civilian casualties they caused, I pity them instead. Pity them for having to live with what they’ve seen, for living with what they had to do. By the way, this point of view applies to every military personal, American or French, British, Iraqi...

So no, I do not disrespect your military by seeing the gigantic suffering they caused, because they just followed orders. My disrespect is going towards the people who sent them and most of all to people like you, who – and I assume boldly- are somewhere safe in the US, never really traveled much nor tried to understand a differences between nations, don’t vote, see what happened in 4 years, see that they’ve been lied at, agree with all that and then have the balls to say that your country should have been more ruthless. It turns my stomach!

harriej said on November 4, 2004 19:55:

looks like more than half of the american people (the part that voted for Bush) is mentally ill and need professional help immediatly.
You can’t have any common sense if you vote for Bush. This man is a walking disaster-area.

Jud (moderator) said on November 4, 2004 23:37:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04conserve.html

now this is scary :O

MiracleMan said on November 5, 2004 00:03:

I’m still just numbed by the election results. I’d hoped we’d be moving in a better direction, but it sees we’re still circling the bowl in a clockwise spiral.

For me, it’s an understatement to say I’m rather disappointed in the election results. I have a difficult time rectifying the political allignment of the other half of the country with my own personal views. I fear for the direction of this county—internally especially—that the Republican dominated government will be dragging the rest of the nation. What the F*CK is WRONG with these people?!

Bush said he takes this vote as a mandate from the people to do whatever he wants with the country—and my fears become deeper.

Right now there’s shove from the evangelical Christian contingent to force the US in a more “moral” direction—a big push for Republican values by meaning. I’ve noticed that Christians in this country feel like they’re the persecuted minority—or rather an ignored and persecuted majority—and they’re pushing as hard as they can to get their values instituted as laws.

As a voter from the red states (the Bush/Republican color on an election map for the uninitiated) I can’t stress just how divided from the country I feel at the moment. My voice in government has been stolen away from me by those who don’t reflect my views. These people are supposed to represent me in the nation’s business. But they won’t. They can’t. They’ll do what they want and ignore those of us who’d disagree with their wants.

We got it wrong with this election and I don’t know how we’ll survive four more years of this kind of wrong without significant, irreparable damage.

ncurran said on November 5, 2004 07:48:

Miracleman, i really feel for you and other like-minded people in the states. The sad thing is, that probably you are in the majority....but not everyones voice was heard, because the poorest people are most likely not to be registered to vote. I am sure if it was compulsory to vote in america the democrats would have won comfortably

Jud (moderator) said on November 5, 2004 09:02:

well at least you can say that it was almost 50%-50%. It would have been worse 70-30 or 80-20 :O

This conservatism is getting close to fundamentalism, a government taking decisions based on Christian religion isn’t that different to a government taking them based on the Koran, or? :O

And you know, you are always welcome here at the other side of the pond! :)

Rich-UK said on November 5, 2004 09:19:

LOL Ferdan! At least I think it’s funny. On second thoughts it’s really quite scarey :-O Hmmm, Rich

coyboyusa said on November 5, 2004 18:42:

there is no american law saying that thge names of civilians kileld in combat cannot be mentioned furthermore, alot of the civilans killed in iraq are in the sunni triuangle, many of the supposed innocents are arming and sheltering terorists from countriews outside iraq. i find it so amazing you peope have the desire to criticized the election of an american president you claim has no power over you. i’d love to have fun picking the national elections of your contries apart, you’;de be amazed to learn how corrupt and immoral alot fo your won politicians are, i really despise the amount of hypocracy i see here in a day to day basis, if your countriews and politicians werew really interested in seeing iraq come to an end they’s draw up a un refernedum sending troops and aid to secure iraq regardless of whether bush wants it or not, but no so many of your contries are hiding because u were selling arms to the sadam regime, the same arms that are now killing innocent iraqis and americna troops, oh the hypocracy

StillFar said on November 5, 2004 19:45:

Regarding the killed civilians. I don’t think you should talk about that because they never show that on your tv stations (maybe you got a glimpse of it watching F 9/11). Listen to yourself and think of the things your saying. How could a war in cities not kill innocent people...if a bunch of people with primitive weapons kill 1100 well protected american soldiers what do you think the damage of the army is (considering the weapons their using in the middle of cities). I’m not speaking against the american army, as every army going to war is causing death, but I think you have to consider what effect a war has and if you should support something that is killing as many people on facts that were all not true. How can that be morally right?

I never said that other governments didn’t sell arms to Iraq (the United States is guilty of that charge too by the way), however, that doesn’t have much to do with the discussion.

I don’t understand your logic. Why should countries go into Iraq right now and take care of the incredible mess the US (Bush) created when all they wanted was Hans Blix to remain in Iraq (who would have reached the same conclusion as the United States reached after thousands and thousands of people have died).

I guess some politicians around the world just don’t send their military (and endanger countrymen) to the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place...and the difference in some of those countries is that they get elected because of that!

Ferdan said on November 5, 2004 22:31:

Voting machine gives Bush over 3000 votes, in a table of 400 voters...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/05/voting.problems.ap/index.html

coyboyusa said on November 6, 2004 15:03:

i never denied civilan casualties but i mean cummon we did not kill 100K thats insane and a bit ignorant and inflamatory. And if you look at the final break down of states that elected bush, nearly every state below the great lakes voted him in, and honestly i knwo aloty of people in ” the terror target states” that didn’t vote kerry. As for the inspections in iraq, how long were they supposed to go on, the simple fact is the majority of the un didin’t want the us going into iraq for fear of us finding out all the things they were going to offer saddam, just like russia has helped iran start its nuclear arsenal. How long should anyone wait for iran to comply with inspections? 20 yrs or maybe until some fundamentalest cleric decides he shoudl nuke india? alot of you don’t truly understand the ramaification of a world thats once again hell benty on nuclear proliferation. and btw a secure and democratic iraq would be in everyones interest not just the usa cause if we were still there for oil we’;d might as well leave iraqs exports are at a trickle now...so tell me again how this is about money?

mardain said on November 6, 2004 21:19:

ok, ok, I do not believe that this subject is for putting to us violent between us! although the violence between fans of roxette is not very serious. I think that although gained bush or gained kerry for the world was not going to be much difference, to the rest of the world would not have to matter to him what U.S. does, as they do, I I know that they have a lack of values but they have good people, I do not believe that the people of U.S. are stupid and in addition I worry to me that half of the country does not agree, I know that the intentions of bush are not good, but kerry, for my does not have a profile of lider, but bad well-known than better good for knowing.

per_mson said on November 7, 2004 17:06:

“shut up” is more or less what USA told UN before Bush&Co. invaded Iraq. Well, such a statement just confirm my view of some Americans = narrow minded and believes everything the corrupt American media tell them.

Vixzter said on November 8, 2004 15:34:

whys everyone picking on coy....he didnt even vote LOL ;-)

oh sod it i replied again *roflol*

per_mson said on November 8, 2004 18:41:

Well, I’m just picking on people I think have a strange attitude... in this case CoyBoy.
And not to vote is like voting for Bush... ;)

Vixzter said on November 8, 2004 18:48:

dammit.....stop making me reply to this topic will you! ;)

Markuz said on November 10, 2004 11:27:

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/032003_strip.gif

per_mson said on November 10, 2004 18:24:

@vix: Well, if you think it is “so what” about the people who doesn’t vote then I must say I get a bit scared. One person can of course not make a difference, but many can. Don’t you realize that it is because of such lazy people persons like Bush get elected in the first place?!

@coyboy: Well, the reason why I am interested in your politics is because I think Bush’s government (not Bush himself, cause he is just a puppet, but the men behind him) is one of the most dangerous government we have in the world right now. No other country have gotten enemies with that many countries in such a short time. So the reason why I care so much is that I simply don’t trust USA (not the people, the government) a single bit anymore. Noone knows what country they will attack next. And such politics is dangerous.

But yes, I know he is there now and I can’t do anything about it. I can just say poor all you smart Americans who voted Kerry and hope your monkey president won’t start WW3.

RoxHard said on November 11, 2004 03:27:

So I guess we can thank “Jesus” for getting Bush re-elected now, can we? I read this from the link and I have to say... it is one of the most stupid things I’ve ever read in my life! Since when has Jesus been interested in politics? And, although I’m not a great christian... I’d presume that Jesus would be very unhappy with George W Bush’s government...

http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/letters/all-balboanov08,0,3274850.stor...

“Jesus speaks through the Republicans”

“I hope the re-election of George W. Bush is seen as a wake-up call to all the liberal Democrats who oppose God’s will.

It is His doing that George W. Bush is still our president. Millions of born-again Christians helped win this election through our prayers and votes. Jesus speaks through the Republicans.

The Democrats will not be able to win elections until they renounce their sinful ways and stop encouraging abortions, gayness, and trying to take away our guns.

Earl Balboa,”
Washington Township.

Enjoy!

ncurran said on November 11, 2004 13:22:

Another really cool site....americans apoligising to the world for the re-election of bush...so far 176 pages of people’s pictures apologising

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/

ncurran said on November 11, 2004 14:42:

check out page 91

“the only bush i trust is my own”

coyboyusa said on November 11, 2004 16:18:

my government is the most dangerous? lets see here, putin has basically rolled back 25 yrs of democratic progress in russia in the name of fighting terrorism. Iran is building nuclear weapons and it is a country run by radical muslims scared they r losing out to democratic reform. N korea is bulding and or has nukes and would give anything to ignite war in the asian continental region, all these crazy dictators and fundamentalist nuts have nuclear weapons and you’re scared of one southern clown with a semi christ complex? you worries are in the wrong place my friend very wrong place

ncurran said on November 11, 2004 17:17:

dont know about that coyboy....i really liked clinton

Vixzter said on November 11, 2004 18:03:

heard this on the news while the election was on.... apparently there was a poll and Clinton was one of the most hated presidents in the US O_o i was like....eh??

anyways, i liked Clinton, told lies got away with it....fantastic!! and he studied in my home town Oxford :-D

politics....its all corrupt ( and any countires who’s isnt cast the first stone)

;-)

StillFar said on November 11, 2004 18:33:

coy: regarding what you said about Putin, asking myself if there’s really that much difference between the two of them.
Besides, doesn’t Bush want to develop a new nucluuuuear project? Which by the way would be in the hands radical christians. Afraid to have no clue on where I can find good and evil anymore!

Ferdan said on November 11, 2004 19:40:

Of course the worst thing is not that Bush is “in charge” but Cheney is in the government, and that is very scary. He´s the puppeter.

Jud (moderator) said on November 12, 2004 16:19:

actually... from those mentioned countries (russia, iran, N korea), who’s in war?

StillFar said on November 12, 2004 17:35:

Coy, yeah times have changed. During the last 4 years a lot has changed. But you know since November 2nd, I do not think anymore that you’re country is misrepresented and the way you apply your international policies is wrongly used by a couple of people. There’s support in your country, which I find appaling. So you will deal with your decisions and whatever happens during the next 4 years..I know I won’t feel pity anymore...god bless the rest of the world ;)

that said I know Vix is right, there’s no point in discussion something we can’t influence!

RoxHard said on November 13, 2004 03:02:

But that’s like saying “oh, all this talk of war is unjust and un-needed”.

ncurran said on November 13, 2004 07:53:

olddag, your post has basically demonstrated the major difference in the European and american psyche. Of course, noone likes to pay taxes, but most europeans expect and are willing to provide for the basic needs of individual....whether that be healthcare, education, pensions, etc....
The difference is that in america the general attitude is “every man for himself”. I find it beyond belief that some americans will justify spending billions in iraq, but do not agree with spending money on free healthcare for all its citizens.

One last thing...when an american uses the word “Freedom” nowadays, it sounds like a dirty word. You wouldnt know freedom if it came up and slapped you in the face

Ferdan said on November 18, 2004 06:02:

Not surprising...

a “glitch” on the voting machines gave most of the democrats votes to the libertarians.
http://www.7onyourside.com/Global/story.asp?S=2558518&nav=7CPDT4VX

the county gave victory to the republicans, what happened after the recount by hand? the Democrats won

ncurran said on November 18, 2004 15:43:

coyboy, i dont understand half of what you write most of the time....what are you going on about with the 3 million muslims?
anyway, maybe american should put some of the billions they pump into defence, into looking after their nations health

Jud (moderator) said on November 18, 2004 17:22:

well I am sure that politicians in countries with a good social health system... do also get something out of it ;) I guess weapons and killing people gives more than healing and saving people. You see where priorities are.

Jud (moderator) said on November 19, 2004 06:15:

coy: nobody is free of sin or there is no perfect country. Muslims do this, Europeans have done whatever at the colonies or we have suffered Hitler, Americans aren’t better, have had slaves and in some parts (south) black are still seen as that. Not to talk about the indians. Therefore, I don’t think there’s anybody with the right to point at the other “see what you have done”.

We are talking about the American health system, why can’t you simply admit it is not the best? that it works better when you pay a part of your salary to the state and therefore you know that if you have an illness or simply have to have a tooth removed or refilled, you only have to get an appointment at the dentist or go to hospital to be operated without having to get bankrupt in the process?

I didn’t mention anything about homeless. What I said about being more profitable killing than saving lives was refering to the health system, not to homeless.

LittleSpooky said on November 19, 2004 22:44:

I mentioned homelessness in a passing reference as to why it is there seems to be “nothing” done about it.